David Bator: Research-Backed Strategies for Improving Workplace Conditions

Pre-order Marcel’s new book, “Humane Leadership: Lead with Radical Love, Be a Kick-ass Boss” → https://www.amazon.com/Humane-Leadership-Lead-Radical-Kick-Ass-ebook/dp/B0CWG3PTL4 

Episode recap:

Marcel and David Bator of Achievers Workforce Institute discussed the importance of humane leadership and creating a sustainable work culture, emphasizing the need for employee engagement and a sense of belonging in the workplace. They explored strategies for improving workplace conditions, including frequent recognition, effective management practices, and implementing regular feedback methods. David also highlights four key factors for manager effectiveness: frequent contact, recognition, coaching, and career development. He suggests that companies should move beyond annual surveys and implement more frequent feedback methods such as one-on-ones, pulse surveys, and recognition programs. David also introduced the concept of the "5 pillars of belonging," which include feeling welcomed, known, included, supported, and connected at work. He stressed that investing in these conditions not only makes employees feel good but also drives business outcomes.

Bio:

David Bator is the Managing Director at Achievers Workforce Institute. He thinks and writes about how work should work. His primary focus in leading the Achievers Workforce Institute is Research, Community, and Advisory, assisting global executives with practical approaches to transforming how the world works. David is passionate about people and has spent the last 20 years collaborating closely with leaders in HR, IT, and Communications to develop programs that empower individuals, teams, and companies to grow.

Quotes:

• "What gets recognized gets repeated. 72% of employees will repeat an action if they are recognized for that action."
• "Employees with a strong sense of belonging are twice as engaged, twice as productive, twice more resilient, and twice more satisfied with their jobs."

Takeaways:

• Evaluate your workplace across the five pillars of belonging: Are employees feeling welcomed, known, included, supported, and connected? Create specific strategies to improve each dimension.
• Start a consistent habit of recognizing team members for their big and small contributions. Aim to provide meaningful, specific appreciation at least once daily and track how it impacts team morale and engagement.

Timestamps:

[00:00] Introduction to Marcel’s new book, Humane Leadership, and his guest, David Bator

[03:05] David’s passion for helping people through his work

[07:34] "The Great Resignation" and "The Great Detachment" and their implications for the current state of the workplace

[12:14] The Importance of Belonging and Employee Experience

[17:02] Strategies for Improving Employee Engagement

[25:33] Non-Monetary Strategies for Driving Engagement

[29:20] Leading with Humane Leadership

[35:50] The Role of Recognition in Shaping Culture

Conclusion:

Creating a culture of belonging, appreciation, and recognition boosts employee engagement, productivity, and retention. Leaders who make employees feel welcomed, known, included, supported, and connected drive positive outcomes. Regular non-monetary recognition and meaningful one-on-ones help employees feel valued and motivated to bring their best selves to work. 

 Links/Resources:

Achievers: https://www.achievers.com/ 

Achievers Workforce Institute:

https://www.achievers.com/workforce-institute/ 

Transcript

Marcel Schwantes 00:05

Hey gang, welcome back, and I know you heard my new book mentioned at the start of the show, and you know, it got me thinking that book humane leadership is not. It's not a book that just teaches you good skills and habits to become a better leader, sure. I mean, you'll get tons of that in the book, okay? But just like this show, it's mission, okay? It's mission. And what I mean by that, if you've been listening for a while, you've probably caught on to the idea that we're creating a global movement, okay, and if you've been part of that movement, because we still see and experience leadership and management cultures that instill fear in people, that keep people stressed out and anxious at a rate that is simply not sustainable. 

And so what happens? Well, people eventually burn out. And let me tell you, if that's your workforce, well, I got news for you. You're probably not getting the best out of your people to help maximize their performance, to get more productivity, create more value for your customers, and really make work a place where people look forward to going to every day, right? So I know I'm not alone in that fight. Okay? There are organizations out there that truly believe we can do better on the people side of the equation. And one of those organizations is achievers, a company I've been tracking I highly admire, you know, I admire them because, well, I've written numerous articles on my Ink Magazine column, highlighting their reports and research on anything culture, leadership and engagement. I've been doing that for years. 

So achievers has a wing that does all the research, and let me just tell you a little bit about them. Okay, as an organization, they build sustainable, data driven success for individuals and organizations around the world, they are science backed. So they bring their science to behavioral change by putting people at the heart of employee experience, you know. And that works great for recognition, support, coaching, all that good stuff. Okay, so this is a brand I stand behind, and the reason it well, one of the big reasons is because it is closely aligned with the love and action message and with the humane leadership book I just wrote. 

So today we're going to be speaking with David Bator. He is managing director at achievers, workforce Institute. That's the research leg of achievers. So little bit about David. David thinks and writes about I love this about how work should work. Get that because sometimes we don't. We don't have the right not only the right idea understanding mindset. We don't have the right data to back up how work should really be according to the needs of people and how leaders should meet those needs. Okay? So in his role, leading achievers, workforce Institute, their primary focus is on research community and advisory, helping global executives just like you with practical approaches to changing how the world works. David is passionate about people, and he has spent the last 20 years working closely with HR it and communications leaders to build the programs that you need, to position yourselves, your people, your teams and your companies to grow. And David Bator now joins us. David, welcome to the Love in Action podcast.

David Bator 03:58

Thank you so much, Marcel. It’s delightful to be here.

Marcel Schwantes 04:01

Yeah, I love it. I'm so glad that I finally got someone else. Dr Natalie has been on this show in the past. We love her, and here you are, and managing director, so appreciate you being here today. Yeah, it's a pleasure, awesome. Okay, so here's how we start. You ready? I am. What's your story?

David Bator 04:22

Well, I'm as surprised by my story and surprised to be here as you are. The short story is that I've, I've been a writer my whole life, and today, as you said, I think and write about how work should work. The slightly longer story is that all of that feels like an accident. Coming out of school where I studied literature and edited the university newspaper, I was convinced that I was headed for a writing life, and then life intervened, and I found myself suddenly in the technology business, eventually in research. Research, and I found first that data just provided a real treasure trove of stories that I could tell. 

I eventually found my way into the recognition and reward category, and it was really the first time in my career where the work that I did had an impact on the lives of people which was, which was so exciting in September of 2020, the company, the things that compelled me to stay and be part of our vision to really change the way the world works is, is the primary research investment that achievers has made for so many years. And really the mission of our work here today, every single day, is to interrogate through primary research and work with our customers like, what conditions need to exist at work every single day so that employees can do the best work of their lives, and I find that to be such a worthy mission. And the reason I'm excited about it, and the story that I get to tell is that every single day is different. That's awesome.

Marcel Schwantes 06:17

Yeah, so I'm really curious. Okay, so coming from a writing background to where you are. Now, can you tell me about what do you love most, about what you do now, considering the journey from where you were to where you are?

David Bator 06:33

Oh, it's, I mean, it's an easy but long answer. I'll only give you long answers, because every day I get to write about and research, again, what work should look like, but every day I also get to interact with colleagues who share the passion that I have for helping people, and most of all, I spend a lot of my time interacting with C suite leaders, HR leaders and frontline managers to understand the very real challenges that confront them and also the opportunities that they're excited about. And so I feel that the work that I do allows me to have one foot firmly planted on the ground and the other, you know, sort of soaring for the sky. So it's again, every single day is different, and that's why I love it. 

Marcel Schwantes 07:36

That's great. Okay, let's get into some of those challenges. We got tons of HR leaders listening on the show. So let's, let's maybe drill down on some of the data you've captured. And you know, we've all heard these, these cliches these days. I mean, they're already cliches, but I remember 2021, we had a term, the great resignation, right? And then more recently, you can throw in the great detachment or quiet quitting, you know. And so taking these, these trends and these terms, what do you think it suggests about the state of the workplace today?

David Bator 08:15

Well, yeah, I understand why the terms exist, because they create buzz. And you know, Buzz drives clicks and sell newspapers and magazines and ads. The truth is that our data from the workforce Institute, reveals some common threads amongst disengaged employees. First of all, we see that they are they are burned out. Nearly half of employees say through our recent research that they're at least somewhat burned out. Secondly, they are disengaged. Just 36% of employees say today that they're engaged in the work they do. Just 34% would recommend their manager, just 27% would recommend their organization. 

And then also they are, they are under recognized. And so we see this combination of lack of commitment to the job, of being paid to do, lack of willingness to wave the company flag, and being stretched in too many directions be ingredients for, you know, a recipe that's that that's not so good tasting for employees. And I think these are some of the things that are that are out there that are affecting employees today. 

Marcel Schwantes 09:29

Yeah, well, burnout is a big thing, and obviously, if you're going to be burning out on the job, you're going to be disengaged, right? So besides that, and I don't know, I don't know if this is a chicken or the egg, you're disengaged, then you burn out, or maybe you burn out and you're disengaged. But whatever the case may be, I mean, let's talk about the most common roots that causes employee disengagement these days, and maybe burnout is a big one. What do you think?

David Bator 09:58

Well, what I. Think first of all is that the terms employee engagement and employee experience are often used interchangeably, even though they have very different meanings. And so for clarity, when I talk about employee engagement, what I'm really talking about is the commitment an employee makes to doing the job that they're paid to do. And by contrast, when I talk about the employee experience. I'm talking about the responsibility that an organization, and by extension, their frontline managers, have to create conditions so that employees can be engaged in the first place. And so, you know, in looking for some of the root causes, I look at those conditions, and one of the things that I see, and it's just not just my vantage point, but we see it from our research, is that organizations are not doing a great enough job in creating conditions so that employees feel that they belong at an organization. 

Our research shows that employees with a strong sense of belonging. Are twice as engaged, they are twice as productive, they are more resilient. They're more satisfied with their jobs. They're more committed to the organization and willing to wave that flag. And so belonging is really, really at the core of us, as you know Marcel, we've done some what I think is pioneering work around the study of belonging at work, and in a study that we published and about four or five years ago, and continue to study belonging and its business impact, we articulated five pillars, as we call them, of belonging, that every employee should feel welcomed, that every employee should feel known, every employee should feel included, every employee should feel supported, and every employee should feel connected at work. 

And what's been really fascinating for us in our practice, as I say, we continue to study belonging in its business impact, is that not only are these five pillars and investment in these five pillars the drivers of all those business outcomes that I talked about, but they become a very easy way for organizations of all sizes to understand what the employee experience should look like in their organization. It becomes a way to organize their approach at a very tactical and practical level. And so I think belonging is not just about the warm fuzzy of making people feel good. What the research shows is that when, when you invest in those conditions, when you are humane in your approach, it drives outcomes for individuals and for the organizations they work for.

Marcel Schwantes 12:40

Yeah, and I got to stress the data again, folks, because David just said, You're twice more engaged, or your employees are twice more productive, twice more resilient, and twice more satisfied with their jobs and twice more committed to your organization, if they have a strong sense of belonging. So I'm going to flip the flip the coin here, David, because I also have it in my notes that you know, the flip side of that is if they have a low sense of belonging. And do you have any data to support what happens if belonging is very low?

David Bator 13:16

Oh, yeah. I mean, employees that have a low sense of belonging are four times less likely to say that they are engaged at work. They are more likely to be to be less committed, less enthusiastic about their job, more critical of their take home pay, more likely to say that they are not their most productive selves, when they're when they're on the clock, and also more likely to feel incapable of meeting unexpected challenges, which I think is really, really interesting. 

We've been, we've been studying resilience quite a bit, and, you know, just 28% of employees say that they feel capable of meeting unexpected challenges at work, which, when you think about it, that's really all work is, you know, we all have our best laid plans for the day or the week or the quarter, but then we, we, we find ourselves in conflict with customers and colleagues and market conditions and so on and what we see Is that belonging, and particularly belonging where we are connected to the mission of the organization, to our managers, to our peers, those are core conditions that that build confidence and resilience, that that we can deal with whatever may be ahead of us. 

Marcel Schwantes 14:34

Yeah, I'm curious, taking belonging, I don't know, maybe getting into the psyche, the mindset of why belonging is such a powerful indicator of employee engagement. What are your thoughts on that?

David Bator 14:51

Well, because as much as organizations create functions inside of their businesses because they understand that high perform. Of those functions drives a particular value for shareholders and other stakeholders in their business. For the most part, the history of work has seen people performing those functions. And while I may perform a function. I'm more than my function. I'm a parent, I'm a partner, I'm an artist, I'm an activist, I'm a coach, I'm a caregiver. People are more and so when organizations create conditions that recognize the humanity of the people that they employ, employees are more willing to bring their whole selves to work. They're able to focus on the task at hand, because they're not distracted by, you know, portioning themselves for what they think is acceptable at work. 

They're allowed to bring their whole selves, and they're able to do the best work of their lives. And I think as well, you know, belonging, and particularly the five pillars that that we talked about, being welcomed, known, included, supported and connected. That is, that is an easier definition to get your head around, than engagement, which, as I said earlier, there's so many different versions of engagement, and so it's tactical and practical for people, and I think that's why they can build around it. You've

Marcel Schwantes 16:31

already said this a few times already. I keep banging on this drum. I keep telling my clients that the when you talk about the belonging piece, it's creating the conditions necessary for those things to happen, to bring that out in people. And it starts with leaders at the top, setting, setting the absolutely, you know, the stage for, for making that happen. Okay, I want to get practical here and let's, let's talk a little bit about solutions. Okay, and you guys are in the business of providing solutions because you have the data it's like now, what do we do with that data? Well, we implement solutions to create these, these awesome cultures that we see, right? So give our listeners some tips and strategies to implement here. How, if I'm a leader, if I'm in HR, I'm in a high level HR role, how can I create a culture where employees feel like they are valued, that they're connected to the work and like they belong?

David Bator 17:36

Yeah, there are a couple of things that come to mind, first of all, I think first of all, at an organization level, we see that frequent recognition is a flywheel that drives so many good things inside an organization. What the research shows is that when an individual is frequently recognized, it has an outsized impact on how they feel about work, and so that means their physical and mental well being. That means their engagement, that means their sense of belonging. That also means the extent to which they were to recommend their manager. 

What we also see is that frequent recognition is a protective factor for organizations, when someone is frequently recognized, they are less likely to leave, they are more productive, they're less likely to feel that they may have a salary that is blow expectations. And what we also see is that frequent recognition has this incredible opportunity to shape and guide the behaviors that an organization really wants individuals to repeat, because they understand that the repetition of those behaviors drives performance, not only for the individual, but for the organization.

 So frequent recognition is very, very important. I think the second thing, however, is that so often our people programs however well designed, however well intentioned, live and die with our frontline managers, we've been studying manager effectiveness quite a bit, and as I shared earlier, when I was rattatating some stats about the current state of the employee experience, just 34% of employees today would recommend their manager. Now, whether or not you accept the wisdom that people quit their boss, rather than their company, that should jump off the page to you, it does to us. 

And what our research shows is that the really four factors that predict manager effectiveness, and they are frequent contact, frequent recognition, coaching and career development. So as different as people are, as varied as organizations are, those four factors, contact, recognition, coaching and career development are pretty stable, and what I. Argue is that they should probably be in the playbook of every manager. 

Marcel Schwantes 20:06

Yeah, and I would argue that none of those four can actually happen unless you are in the business of building relationships with your employees to understand what right well, how to recognize them, what career paths to develop, put them in, yeah, and, and all those things. 

David Bator 20:27

Oh, I think you're exactly right. And I think one of the trends that I've observed over the last number of years is that we are moving from an era of one size fits all, that was really sort of the domain of the command and control organization. You know that the decisions were made on high. We cascade them down throughout the organization. The call to action was always comply or else. And what's happened over the last number of years is that there's been an awakening with employees where they realize they've always sort of had autonomy, and they can exercise it, and so we're seeing now this era of hyper personalization, and it's harder and it's more expensive for HR. But the beautiful thing here is going back to the comment about humane leadership and belonging is what the research does show, is that when we build employee programs that, again, embrace the basic humanity of our people and meet them in the moments that matter to them, on an individual level, they're more loyal, they're more productive, and they're more willing to wave our flag as a great place to work.

Marcel Schwantes 21:41

Yes, yes, okay, I want to transition to the topic of those annual employee opinion surveys. Okay, so full disclosure, I'm not a big fan. Yeah, I don't think opinions about the work or your leadership should be relegated to a once a year tick the box HR event, or at least has out that's how some people see it, but I know that sometimes it's a necessity for us to get some data, at least to get some action planning into place. So let's talk about going beyond the traditional, sort of, you know, old school mentality that we have to have the annual survey. Okay, so going beyond that, what else? Or how can companies track and measure employee engagement beyond that?

David Bator 22:30

Yeah, so I think there are some methods and some metrics. I do think that engagement surveys, whatever their frequency, they do still have some utility for inspecting the conditions of the employee experience, but of course, there's no point in doing it if you're not committed to actions. So a commitment to action and improvement, this doesn't always mean moon shots. This sometimes means just, you know, baby step improvements, but the commitment to act is critical. There are a couple of methods, as I mentioned that I think that are that are important. I mentioned one on ones and how important they are in the toolbox of managers. And this is true. Marcus Buckingham often says, if, if you're to get rid of anything like don't get rid of your what your one on ones. 

They provide you to give recognition, to provide coaching, to talk about career development. So one on ones are an important method for gaging feedback. I think pulse surveys as that can even feed off some of the results or the actions from the engagement survey. Are a positive way to check in, not just on themes illuminated from that survey, but when you've taken action. For example, if, if the engagement survey says, Can communication sucks here? And you, you spin up a tiger team, and you're, you're working to, you know, close that gap to go back out to those affected employees, to say, 30 days ago, you told us communication sucks. We've done a, b and c. Where are we actually doing any better? I think those have utility. 

And then I also think you know your recognition program. I've talked about why recognition is so important, but an actual recognition program can be can be critical to ensure a consistent experience for all employees, and also a way for managers to attract accountability. So those are the methods in terms of a metric I talked a little bit about manager effectiveness. I don't know how many of your listeners are using net promoter scores or manager net promoter scores, but what our research shows is that particularly with manager net promoter scores and. 

Again, with that only 34% of employees willing to recommend their manager when the employee when managers rather adhere to frequent contact, frequent recognition, coaching and career development, it is a great multiplier for the extent to which their employees will recommend them, a 3x 4x sometimes even 5x multiplier against things like productivity, engagement and so on, and so if that's not in the toolbox of your listening strategy today, I'd suggest that maybe it should be.

Marcel Schwantes 25:29

That's great. Okay, so I think there is a common assumption that increasing somebody's salary, throwing more pay at them, solves the disengagement crisis, but not everybody, not every company is set up for it. They don't have large budgets, etc. So let's talk about non monetary strategies. What can companies do to drive engagement that way?

David Bator 25:53

Well, I say a couple of things here. First of all, I talked about frequency of recognition to be slightly productive for a moment, 70% of the recognition that happens on our platform is non-monetary. That means there's no points, there's no dollars attached to it. Individuals are recognizing each other. They're being recognized by their manager for values to life. Performance is big and small, and so that that the frequency of that non monetary recognition has a big impact on how someone feels. We interestingly, achievers. Workforce Institute asked in a recent survey employees which job would they prefer? Would they prefer a job where they were seen, valued and appreciated every single day, or would they take a job that paid them 30% more, but those feelings were absent. 72% of employees picked appreciation. 

So it goes to show you that you know the truth is, you and I would probably take a pay bump if it would was offered it to us tomorrow, but it's not why we stay. It's not the thing that ultimately fills our cup. And so what we also asked employees is we asked them how fairly they felt compensated. 53% said, Yeah, I feel fairly compensated. That number jumped to 70% and then 73% when employees felt they belonged and were frequently recognized, respectively, and so again, those are some of the tools that should be in the toolbox when you are creating conditions for someone to be seen, for the unique individual they are, but also for the contributions they make, not just when they hit home runs, but when They get on base when they move runners along. Those are conditions that compel people to stay. And we call it someone's emotional salary and what the research shows is that that's not a warm, fuzzy term, that that really is a big factor in employee retention.

Marcel Schwantes 27:59

No, it is so, so true. You know, you can pay somebody an exorbitant amount of salary, but if they are disengaged, they're going to leave 369, months down the line, no matter how much more perks you throw their way, or if you bump up their salary, if they are in a toxic environment where they're not valued or not recognized, of course they're going to move on to your competitor. So that's, that's the business case. Well, it's the human case. And, yes, there's the icing on the cake here is that there's a business case for it too, but you're doing it because it increases value in in bringing out the best in your workers when you have this emotional salary, right? I love that. That's such a counterintuitive term, emotional salary, but it's true. 

David Bator 28:46

It is. And, you know, I even think about my own career any and I acknowledge this from a position of privilege, but anytime in my career that I began to think, you know what, I'm feeling a little underpaid here, when I pause and step back, there's always something else that's happening there. It's either that I stopped learning, or I don't feel I have opportunities to stretch, or, you know, I don't feel valued in some other way. And so we'd all take a pay raise. But it's not what keeps us for the long haul. 

Marcel Schwantes 29:24

Yeah, yeah. All right, speak to the CEO that is tasked with shaping company culture to become all those things that we have talked about, right to raising the emotional salary in the culture. So if they're now faced with maybe the board says, Hey, we need to turn this ship around and starts with our culture. What's the good starting point?

David Bator 29:49

Oh, I come back to recognition again. You know, CEOs job is, is to really shape the or use the word shape. It's to shape the organization. To take on an ideal form, so that again, it drives and delivers value for or its shareholders. And that cannot be abstract. Once you cascade it down throughout the organization. It needs to be understood at a gut level, at an everyday operational level for frontline workers, and then all the way back up the stack. 

And so investing in recognition, where you are creating a culture where every single day, people feel appreciated for the contributions large and small that they make is important because it feels good to work somewhere that feels good, but also, as I described, recognition has this special utility to shape the behaviors that drive performance. What we often say at achievers is what gets recognized gets repeated, and it's true, the data bears this out. 72% of employees will repeat an action if they are recognized for that action. And so, you know, it's not a sexy answer. What we see is that it's the over and over and over again that of it all, that that that that plays out. It's consistency over time, it's accountability over time that helps shape an organization. And so if I had a nickel, if why I were a CEO, I'd be spending my goal on aligning employees to organization.

Marcel Schwantes 31:39

Okay, all right, David, as we wind down here, what's something that maybe we haven't covered, that our listeners absolutely need to know?

David Bator 31:52

Well, I would say that the debate about where work should get done is not over, if you believe the press, the pendulum continues to swing about whether it's return to office or the demand for flexibility and wherever work gets done, I think organizations need to center themselves around a few key principles. Wherever work gets done, it needs to be easy for employees to access the people, the skills, the resources they need so they can be productive and positive from everywhere. 

Similarly, that that sense of positivity, is important, and whether you know, have the opportunity, as I do today, to rub shoulders with my colleagues because we're on a day where we're all in the office, or whether I'm working, you know, from a hotel room or from one of my son's bedrooms, Organizations need to invest in those conditions so that people meet, people can be productive, from positive, from anywhere. And I think the truth is that this debate will continue to rage for the next number of years. It's, in fact, going to be a focus of our research coming up. 

Marcel Schwantes 33:14

Good, good, okay, can't wait for that. All right, we arrive at our speed round. I fire questions at you, and you fire them right back at me. Just don't throw your 98 mile an hour fastball. Acne, okay, so All right, here we go. One of your go to books that you pull from your library and dust it off every few years.

David Bator 33:38

Yeah, a current favorite is a book called for everyone by Jason Reynolds. Jason Reynolds is a poet, and he writes books for young adults. And this book was first presented as a poem live, and then it was published as a very slender ball volume. I've probably bought 30 copies of it for people, and what it is really a call to action for dreamers and makers everywhere, about the little by little of everything. I think it's a beautiful read. And if you were to ask any of my three sons, they would tell you that every single time I read it to them, I cry. So for everyone, by Jason Reynolds is a must read. 

Marcel Schwantes 34:25

I would say that's great. I will put that in my show notes. All right. Greatest lesson you've learned in your life?

David Bator 34:33

So many I am only the product of making many, many, many, many, many mistakes, but I think the greatest lesson I learned came from seven years old. I was the first grandchild in my family, a very, very big family, and I was being fed like a boy king, and my grandmother, who was the most. Mother of eight sons, my father was one of one of them, pulled me aside and held me in her arms, and she said to me that the greatest gift you could ever give or receive is your presence be she would emphasize and to me, that's what I strive for every day, to be present enough to use the gifts that I've been given to help other people. That's my greatest lesson. 

Marcel Schwantes 35:27

Love it. Love it. Okay, if I'm a leader, what is one thing I should absolutely avoid doing?

David Bator 35:35

Oh, well, making assumptions. So many of the people programs we build today, we build with a supply side focus. You know, hey, employees, here are all the things we made for you, rather than a demand side focus that meets employees in the moments that matter to them. And you can only know what those matters are by asking and you that means you cannot assume. So don't make assumptions. 

Marcel Schwantes 36:03

All right, here's a stumper. Name a person dead or alive that you would love to sit down with, have dinner with and pick their brain?

David Bator 36:10

Not a stumper. These are not hard questions of ourselves. My other grandmother, my maternal grandmother, Frida. She was all the things as my wife says, I sat to her, to her left, always at our dinner table on Sundays, it was Command Performance. She had impeccable manners, but also she was the most fun I have ever met. She would be the first person who'd say, Hey, who do you think can spit watermelon seeds the the furthest she left us, very, very like too soon. And so I think about her every day, and I would love to break bread with her again. 

Marcel Schwantes 36:46

Oh, that's good. That's good. All right, your biggest hope for 2025?

David Bator 36:52

Man, oh, man, are we ever having a moment? I think that it is. I think it is easy to be overwhelmed and sometimes impossible to believe that we can wrap around our arms, around everything that is happening in our world at the moment. What I hope is that as individuals, we're reminded of the importance of neighborhoods, of the communities that we live and we work in. And I hope we're reminded that that that little moments can have a big impact, holding the door open for someone, saying please and thank you, having good manners, acknowledging someone for the big and little things they do every single day. The these are, these are commitments that we make to our future, and I think treating people in our circle well has the opportunity to have a ripple effect. And so my hope is that we ground ourselves in the communities that that we live and work in.

Marcel Schwantes 37:57

Congratulations. You have survived the speed round. Thank you. I had to say it in my game show voice, of course, that's right, all right. So we bring it home with two questions tradition on the show. And here's the first one. It's the love question, so sticking with themes that maybe are backed by the data or some of the best practices that that we know that from this conversation, okay, how do I lead with more actionable, practical love, day in and day out? Is there something that floats to the top?

David Bator 38:34

Yeah, I I'm talking to you today from Canada. Canada is a bilingual country, and there's a saying in French, “plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose,” which means, the more things change, the more they stay the same. And it is convenient to believe that, you know, our world of work is so different, but I don't believe that to be the case. I believe that employees have always wanted to be valued and appreciated. All employees have always wanted to raise their hand and get a great idea heard by the right person. 

Employees have always wanted it to be easy to access the people they need to be productive and positive from anywhere. And have always wanted to do interesting work with interesting people. And so if we lean in to creating that kind of love, I think what we can do is survive. You know, any change people have only demonstrated throughout the history of the world that they're that they're resilient, and so, going back to just some of the Humane things that you talk about so well in your book, I think, is where I answer that question.

Marcel Schwantes 39:45

So good. All right, bring us home. What is that one thing that you want people to take away from this conversation?

David Bator 39:53

Oh, I think every day we have the opportunity to change some. One's life and that doesn't have to be through a heroic action. It often comes through the habit of being good to one another and taking a moment to say thank you for a job. Well done. The thing that I love about working for achievers is that it's been my experience in nearly five years that I could stop in the hall and I could introduce myself to any stranger, because I don't know everybody and every single person would and if I said help me. I need help with something, people would stop and help me, and that's that that's possible because we've built a culture here on appreciation, and through the habit of appreciation, not just when we hit the home run. So we have that opportunity every single day, and I hope people make use of it.

Marcel Schwantes 41:00

That's good. All right. Send us a few places where can people go to connect with you and find out more about achievers workforce Institute, or just to learn more about what you do.

David Bator 41:12

Well, that's great. Thank you for the opportunity. So you can always check us out at achievers.com and I write an article every single day on LinkedIn, and so I'd love to connect with folks there, and they can tell me what I'm getting right, but more importantly, what I'm getting wrong. So that's where you can check me out.

Marcel Schwantes 41:32

That's great, David, you are so full of wisdom, and you are so enlightening. And I mean, I truly, truly, it's been an honor talking to you. Thanks for joining us today.

David Bator 41:41

Oh, thank you, and congratulations on your book, Marcel.

Marcel Schwantes 41:46

I appreciate that very much, and you can keep the conversation going. Folks on social media with #loveinactionpodcast, and look for my show notes, as well as a YouTube link to this very episode. You can find all that on my website, marcelschwantes.com. For David Bator, I'm Marcel and hey, remember in the end, love wins. We'll see you next time, bye.