Samantha Thomas: Debunking Myths About Love in Business

Episode recap:

Samantha Thomas and Marcel Schwantes discussed Samantha's book on love and business and the broader role of love, trust, and faith in both personal and professional growth. They explored the importance of acknowledging others, fostering psychological safety, and balancing self-love with service to others. The conversation touched on trust’s role in relationships, the dangers of cancel culture, and the need for open-minded dialogue. They concluded with reflections on leadership, emphasizing the power of love over fear in shaping organizations.

Bio:

Samantha is a consultant, coach, and writer who has spent over a decade researching the motivators and barriers to love in human beings and exploring how these factors impact personal relationships and broader social structures.

Her work in love and the psychology of human behavior began with The Love Summit, a business and leadership conference she created while serving as Executive Director of Dream Change from 2012 to 2018. The event brought together business and government leaders to explore how love, as both an ethic and a practice, could heal the deepest emotional wounds of individuals and address society's most pressing social and economic challenges. Samantha was recognized as a Global Shaper by the World Economic Forum and featured in several prominent media outlets. She earned her MSc in Global Prosperity from University College London and a certification in Applied Compassion Training from Stanford University (2023).

Quotes: 

• "Love is about extending ourselves for the growth of ourselves or another, but it is really about going above and beyond the self."
• "Faith is what allows us to keep going. Faith is what allows us to continue creating life because we believe there is meaning, a future, and possibilities. Without that, we have nothing."

Takeaways:

• Reflect on past experiences and personal growth to better understand your purpose and how to lead with love.
• Explore ways to build trust and psychological safety in your workplace to create a culture of love and growth.
• Keep the faith and never give up - change and growth are always possible, even in difficult times.

Timestamps:

[00:05] Introduction
[03:50] From eco-fashion to leading a movement
[05:57] Writing a book on love, success, and purpose
[16:31] The hidden power of acknowledgment in work and life
[21:40] How mirroring love can change relationships
[37:51] Why faith and hope matter in leadership
[47:45] Trust and love—building a stronger workplace
[01:01:22] How leaders can remove fear from company culture
[01:12:20] Love vs. fear—the forces shaping leadership
[01:15:27] Practical ways to lead with love every day

Conclusion:
Love, when embraced as a guiding principle, has the power to shape both personal growth and professional success. It encourages resilience, strengthens relationships, and creates the foundation for meaningful change. Even in difficult times, choosing compassion and optimism can open new paths forward. Lasting progress begins with the belief that growth is always within reach, no matter the challenges faced.

Marcel Scwhantes' Substack

https://marcelschwantes.substack.com/

Links/Resources:
Website – www.justchooselove.com
Substack - https://justchooselove.substack.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/lovebyst/
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Transcript

Marcel Schwantes 00:05

And Samantha Thomas now joins us. Welcome back to the Love in Action podcast.

Samantha Thomas 00:11

Thank you so much, Marcel, so good to be back. 

Marcel Schwantes 00:15

Yeah, it's always fun to chat with you. I have a feeling that you're going to just be a regular guest from now on, it's your it's your second turn. But our conversations and our research and just our evolution demands more conversations every time, every time I hear of what you're learning and experiencing out there in the world, what you're creating is like, Okay, it's time to have Samantha back. So here you are.

Samantha Thomas 00:40

Yes, here I am. It's so good to be back, and I'm really glad to hear you say that this is just becoming more of a conversation for you on your podcast. I mean, your podcast is love in action, of course, so it is the theme of the podcast, but having someone like me on who is a love researcher and has worked in this area for a decade. Now, I remember getting started and it being kind of a slow start to this, this idea of love and business, and now it just seems to be picking up more and more. 

Marcel Schwantes 01:17

So I love to hear that it is picking up more and more. I'm I mean, have you seen that the number of books and well, definitely books and articles coming out. I mean, I might pat myself a little bit on the back for contributing to that, for that sphere of the love and leadership sphere. But it seems like as the world understands and have a has a better framework for how to adapt to a more Kinder, compassionate and loving way of relating and doing work and doing business and handling employees and customers alike. People's minds are opening up and then, you know, and we can talk about how that permeates the rest of society. You know, how work, work and life is integrated. So, you know, we talk about love, we can't ignore the fact that that that is also going to influence other parts of our lives as well. Absolutely, yeah, yeah. Okay. So remember, for those of you that heard Samantha's first episode, you know, I ask, as I do with every guest you know, what's your story? So let's refresh people about your story. For those not familiar with you.

Samantha Thomas 02:40

Sure, thanks for asking. Well, I think that I said something similar on our first episode, when someone asks me, what's your story? It's a difficult question to answer, because, as we all know, our stories are big and long, and we always have the question, where do we start? You know, I think now what feels most relevant for me is, you know, I could go back to the beginning and tell you where my career started. Like, for instance, it started in the Eco fashion industry. I've always been driven by social causes. Hence, eco fashion, that means, like, sustainable, ethical fashion quickly pivoted from that and then started working as executive director of a nonprofit organization called Dream change for six years, where I worked alongside New York Times best-selling author John Perkins, and we at Dream change created this event called the love Summit, business and leadership conference that was my baby there, and I became obsessed with this idea of bringing love into business. 

And as we were just talking about back then, which even though it wasn't that long ago, is it was 2015, so a decade ago, when the first love summit happened, I remember there being pushed back about using the word love in business. And there still is today, a little bit less, but not as much. So at the time, though, it was really great because we had Dan Wieden, who was the or is, but now he's passed, the founder of Wieden and Kennedy advertising agency in Portland, Oregon, get behind us and say you can host it at our headquarters in Portland. And for listeners who aren't familiar with Wieden and Kennedy, and probably won't be unless you're in the advertising space, they are the guys that came up with Nike slogan just do it, and are responsible for a lot of the other big brands out there in the advertising for them. So they're such an awesome creative, disruptive, independent advertising agency, and so that's where we did the first love summit. 

The second one was that LPK brand design agency in Cincinnati, Ohio, and that was in 2017 then I left dream change and I went back to school. To do research behind the concept of love and business, because I wanted to get more credibility behind it. And I went to London in 2019 and 2020 to do a master's in global prosperity, where I did a research dissertation on the topic of love as a social ethic. And the plan was always to continue doing the love summit after that. That's why I went back to school to kind of like, amp up love summit and get more behind it. But then COVID hit at the end of my master's program, and I ended up coming home early, and plan shifted, and I landed in Nashville, where I now am and live, and life has taken quite a turn over the last handful of years, I was working as marketing director for a lighting company randomly for a couple of years. Left that job about a year and a half ago, and now I'm kind of getting back on the saddle and into this love stuff that we're talking about today. I'm writing a book on love and business and life, and I also do some other things to keep me afloat, but that's the long and the short of it.

Marcel Schwantes 06:15

Yeah. So you mentioned the book. I mentioned the book in the introduction. Maybe we can start a little bit there and break that down how that experience has been for you. I mean, it's your it's your first offering, you know, attempt here. How's it going, and what's been the process like for you as you research and learn new things. 

Samantha Thomas 06:38

Thanks for asking. Yeah, so for your listeners who are writers, who are have or who have thought of writing a book, you all know it is no easy feat, and once again, it's like, where do I begin? You know it's this, because even if you're writing a book that's more factual, or like a how to book, even if it's not memoir or a novel, it's a story. And with any story, we have to be very thoughtful about where to begin, and how does it tie together, and how does it pull the reader, and what's going to be of greatest service to others. The book that I'm writing is part memoir, part business and part research book, and so as you can imagine, tying together those three things is a big task. I'm inspired right now largely by the memoir piece, because a lot has changed for me in my personal life in the last handful of years, and I am becoming more aware of, I don't know if you've had this experience, and I'm sure you have, and I'm sure your listeners have, at some point or another, and to some extent or another, where you look back on your life and then you look at where you are today, and you're like, oh, that's why things are the way that they are now, or I am where I am now, or why I am how I am. 

And I've been having a lot of those kind of moment, like aha moments, over the last handful of years, and it's been actually quite painful. It's happened through some difficult and challenging experiences, but it's been good because it's been helping me to wake up to being more living with eyes wide open, and being more aware of how I want to be in the world and how I want to serve, and coming back to this idea of love, and me feeling like my purpose, and I think all of our purpose, and in one way or another, and it expresses, definitely for everyone, is to bring love or service to the world and others and to Help in our own way. And for me, the way that I learn how to do that is by looking back at my life and kind of seeing the full picture and where I am now, and looking at like, what are the things that we're always we've always been drawn towards, that we have a natural inclination towards, that's usually where your gift is and where you're meant to serve. So I've been looking at that a lot and kind of honing, if you will, my message and my purpose through that process of reflection, yeah, kind of bringing that all into the book and then tying it into the business part and the research part and trying to, you know, make it a fluid story.

Marcel Schwantes 09:46

Yeah, speaking of reflection, okay, so, yeah, you mentioned, you know, how you are able to look back at how, how you operated, how you were, thinking back and now. In comparison to where you are now, and maybe points along the journey, right? And I'm telling you some of the most powerful moments of powerful aha moments that I get are only possible through personal growth or a commitment to growing to a growth mindset, right? Yes. And in my own life, the biggest transformations or breakthrough I experienced is when I began to heal from heal and recover from my own traumas. We all have traumas. Some of us may not acknowledge that, because they haven't, they haven't dealt with the hard reality that, yes, we are all challenged by something, and some of us haven't had closure to a light an event back in our past, and so we don't experience the aha moments because we haven't gone back to deal with root causes that may be hampering the way we work, the way we relate to our partners, spouses, children, co-workers, bosses, right? 

And so, so that's why you triggered that. That reaction in me is that you are able to look back at how you operated in comparison to how your and the transformation you experienced. I think you touched on a few of those on the last episode. But again, you have to do the work. You have to do the work of self-discovery, of building self-awareness, of truly understanding who you are as a person. That means having to go back to your past and deal with some core issues that you may not have resolved yet. So that's what popped up when you know, as you were talking about the journey of transformation and growing along the linear path.

Samantha Thomas 12:08

Yes, that's exactly what I was alluding to. And it can be painful, right? Going back to the past and looking at ourselves and our quote, unquote mistakes, or where we've gotten in our own way, or what our patterns are, positive and negative. It can be hard. It's a lot of work. Like you said, just like love, it is work. It takes work. Love isn't easy. As people, I think sometimes have this conception of love that it is simple or just an emotion and just a feeling, and it's just something that we easily fall into and easily fall out of. And it can be and it can be dangerous in that way, when we're kind of like swayed by the emotion of love, but when we look at love as a balance of both emotion and action, and we balance those two principles, and we do the work. Getting back to, you know, looking at our lives and self-reflection and being self-aware and being dedicated to our personal growth, it takes a lot of work, just like when love is in balance and love is in its highest state and highest form takes a lot of work to employ as well. So think that's why a lot of us, we shy away from looking back at the past and because it's difficult. And I did that for a long time myself, where I was just I was moving so fast towards the future and kind of running away and until it caught up with me and I said, I don't want to do these I don't want to do these things anymore. I don't want to behave in these ways. I want to be freed from the shackling fear and other behavioral patterns that were no longer serving me.

Marcel Schwantes 14:03

Read from the shackling. There's a visual, yeah, how many of us are shackled? Right? And we, you mentioned, we run away from our from the problems that we need to confront and many others isolate. And instead of joining community and support systems that are going to help you along the way, we isolate and make it worse and we live in secrecy. Now, folks, this is okay, so let me. Let me. I'm going to drop a little mini disclaimer for my listener, Samantha, because this conversation is not going to be the typical love and action conversation where, you know, here are five points to engaging your employees, or, you know, five leadership tips to, you know, having more. For emotional intelligence and how to exercise that. The reason I say that is because we agree this is going to be a conversation that is going to sort of ebb and flow according to where, where it goes, where the you know, where it evolves. It's going to be organic. 

And the reason I say this is because we may. We already have touched on some hard issues. So I want to encourage you folks to just wrestle through be, be in the in the tension. If you feel a little bit of a tension in the moment, and if you feel uncomfortable with what we are discussing, just be in the moment and just kind of wrestle through it, because some of this stuff we're, we're, we're going to talk about, may actually help you get through the other side. You get through to the other side. It may, may actually help you deal with some of the things you may maybe experiencing and keeping you stuck and in some kind of, you know, emotional disarray, whether it's at work or at home. So hang with us if it gets a little bumpy for you. All right, so having said that, I know you're probably going to drop a lot of these things that that we want to talk about in your book, but I thought maybe we talk about a little bit about some of these love principles that you're that you're studying and researching. And one of them is the love principle of acknowledgement,

Samantha Thomas 16:42

Yeah.

Marcel Schwantes 16:44

Yeah, I mean acknowledging another person, boy, in the world that we live in, it's so divisive. We're not doing enough of that. You know? We're basically doing the 180 and running away from people instead of acknowledging them, even if we disagree with their point of view, we can still disagree with their point of view, but this, this inability for us to acknowledge another human being keeps us from having greater awareness of others and maybe even acknowledging somebody that that doesn't believe the same things we do down the line can open up new pathways to connect with that person. So touch on that, break that down for us. 

Samantha Thomas 17:34

Yeah, the principle of acknowledgement is one of the principles of love that I'm finding is just becoming more and more clear how important it is. I'm still in the process of finalizing my my own kind of principles of love, because there are a lot of philosophies and theories about love out there by other philosophers and writers who have principles or virtues of love, and I'm still in the process of finalizing mine, but as I go about my research and continuing that, I'm finding that acknowledgement is just making its way closer and closer to the top of the list. And often, when I think of the word acknowledgement, I think of its antithesis, or count, yeah, the opposite of acknowledgement. And this might sound odd, but I see the opposite, or the antithesis of acknowledgement as abandonment. So I'm just going to pause for a second and ask you to think about, imagine if you never in your life felt abandoned, ever. And this could be like a small abandonment issue, or it could be a bigger one, going back to like a parent, abandoning, abandoning you, or a super close friend, you know, something very traumatic like that, or it could be something much more, kind of simple, or maybe even seemingly petty, like, you sent someone a text message and it's someone who is important to you in some way, and they haven't answered you in a week. 

Like, how does that make you feel often that it's like bummer, doesn't feel good, right? And I think about if any, if, if none of us was ever abandoned, abandoned in our lives, but especially in the bigger ways, like from childhood, how much stronger, secure individuals we would be and when we have strong, secure, grounded individuals, that translates into a stronger, more secure, grounded society, the personal growth and spiritual growth and emotional growth is totally. State of an individual is totally integrated with societal growth, and societal growth is contingent upon that. We need that. And the principle of acknowledgement is so important because it really it touches on how essential it is for people to be noticed, recognized praised, and paid attention to attention and acknowledgement that's a mouthful. Is that such a great expression of love and one of the greatest expressions of generosity? And yeah, I'll pause there and see what your thoughts are. 

Marcel Schwantes 20:49

Yeah, yeah. I have one, because I'm sure that some people are going, well, you know, that's great for the person receiving the acknowledgement. But how does that benefit me? The acknowledger, so how does that help me in my own growth and my own well-being?

Samantha Thomas 21:07

That's a really good question. And I also remembered, before you asked that question, I have something very important to add to what I just shared, and that is that I know Marcel, you said in your preface to this discussion about acknowledgement that sometimes we have trouble acknowledging people that we don't agree with, or maybe we don't want to make time for them. We don't, you know, we're busy. We have things to do, places to be, and our own agenda. You know, everyone's kind of worried about themselves. It's, it's that quintessential image that I get of, you know, us walking down the street, just passing a homeless person, not acknowledging them because we don't have the time. And what are we going to do? How are we going to help them anyway? And how's that going to help us? Everyone's in it. You know, we're all in it for ourselves. That's part of the problem. And I just, I want to add that if someone is harming you or being abusive or unkind, that is different, like you have permission to not engage with people that are harmful or abusive, if you are not an expert to, you know, take on that situation, or you you're in danger or something like that, or you can't help somebody, if you truly can't help, then there is a time for, you know, walking away or leaving or not acknowledging or sometimes we have to just ignore, right, but ignoring can also be very harmful if it's not in a situation like that, if it fits someone who deserves acknowledgement. 

And getting back to your question, Marcel of how does this help me? By acknowledging others? I think of it as similar to the principle of service, and how I really see love and service, in some ways, as synonymous. Service is one of the greatest acts of love, and when we think about service, service is about helping others, right? It's about extending beyond ourselves to help others, and so is love. That's the principle of love in action is extending ourselves beyond our personal needs to help the other. And often we think that that's not self serving, but it actually ends up being this, like reciprocal relationship, that the more that we help others, acknowledge others, serve others, it does help us. It helps every it's a ripple effect, and often actually like when we move beyond ourselves and get out of our own self focus and just thinking of us, that's when the magic happens, and that's usually when we fall into our gift the most, And what we have to offer others most, and that when you are in your gift and your unique acts of service that you bring to the world, That is the most gratifying feeling, both emotionally gratifying and then also physically gratifying. You. There will be a lot of material and physical rewards that come from that too. Yeah, so I know that was a lot, but I hope that makes sense. Please ask questions. Well, it was a little complex. 

Marcel Schwantes 24:59

No, I. And yes, but paraphrasing a lot of the things you said for me, just putting things into context, nobody's asking to acknowledge somebody that is abusive toward you. I think acknowledgement has is wrapped around really good, healthy boundaries, so that you're not empowering an abusive person, somebody that is toxic in your organization, by acknowledging that person, that who may feel like you're enabling them to continue in their toxic behavior. No, that's not at all. We're Yeah, so I totally get that we're talking about acknowledging for the betterment and the benefit of another human being who is contributing in a positive way, and then hopefully that person will then pay it forward, right? And those of us, those of us, I'm going to remove that, those people that are not contributing in a positive way and they're spreading their toxicity, hopefully, as the tide rises and lifts all boats that they will get with the program, and realizing, okay, hey, maybe I should kind of shift in that direction a little bit. 

Because sometimes we adopt the behaviors and the culture we inherit the culture that we're in, and then we, all of a sudden, start to be influenced by the those very toxic behaviors, the lack of disrespect, the bullying and, you know, the just the degrading throwing people under the bus. Pick your metaphor, okay, but I, yeah, I've, I've coached management teams that had to completely shift to their sort of, their natural gifts, which were more about gratitude and serving others first, but, but they had to realize that the some of the cultural aspects of that they inherited from previous owners, previous executives, etc. They had to break the cycle that have permeated the organization that kept them from being more growth oriented, to being more kinder and more empathetic towards others, so which then paves the way to acknowledging others more, right? So that's my little tangent as well. Is, yeah, we need to have the awareness of okay, acknowledgement is great if those that are receiving it are contributing towards the movement, the movement and spreading acknowledgement, you know, across the organization.

Samantha Thomas 27:49

I will also say, though, that I acknowledgement is helpful even in situations where, let's say, in an organization, there is an employee or a leader that's being unethical or abusive in some way or causing harm that needs to be acknowledged. It's not that we just turn a turn a blind eye and pretend it's not happening. It's like, similar to, like, you know, the homeless person on the street, or there's like, a starving children, a child next year. You're not going to just be like, Oh, I can't do anything about it, so I'm going to ignore it. No, we have to do something. There has to be we have there should be acknowledgement. And there needs to be a plan for resolution in some way. Sometimes though, we are not the person to do that, and we end up hitting a wall, and it needs to be turned over to someone else, or we've just reached the end of what we're capable of helping with in any capacity, so we have to just walk away. But it reminds me of, you know, our rehabilitation system in this country, and our incarceration system and these systems that we have to just throw people that are quote, unquote bad in jail or in rehab and not I mean, it's just mind boggling. What like someone, for instance, who this is, I don't mean to drop a bomb. 

This is intense, but commit has makes an attempt at committing suicide, they often then get put in a psychiatric ward in a padded room with no one else around them except doctors. And I mean getting back to your comment about community Marcel and how important that is. Is in times of change and transformation and personal growth and pain and challenge. I mean, think about it. Someone who's about to so serious about not wanting to be here that they would try to end their life, they probably feel very alone, right? And then, what do we do? We go and throw them in a psychiatric ward, in a padded room with nobody, no compute community around them whatsoever, like that is the opposite of what people need. Or what about someone who is, you know, commits a crime, and we say, you know, we want people to change. And there are some people that believe, many of us that there's possibility for change and transformation amongst people who maybe had, like, very rough lives and we're in and out of jail and that kind of thing. But when we just take people and throw them in a cell around in an environment with other people that have all done, not so great things on all of them. But you know what I mean? I don't mean to generalize. 

But you know, generalizations exist for a reason that that's not helpful either. So that's why I'm just saying, like I don't mean to I am not in any way promoting a throwaway culture where we just say, Oh, this person's a bad person, or this person's a narcissist or this person's abusive, and so I'm just gonna say, Screw you. Goodbye. I'm no these people need help. They are part of our society, and the problems that we have at work with people like this and our personal lives are never going to go away unless we address them. So those need to be acknowledged too. But I'm just saying that you might not be the person to be the hero in that situation, but you could acknowledge and say hey to your you know, colleague or your boss. This isn't this isn't going over well with me. I've tried to bring this to your attention several times. You know, fill in the blanks of whatever the issue is, you approach it lovingly and firmly, because love is firm at times. And, and if you've tried that a few times and it's not working, then you take a different course of action and sometimes that might mean leaving your job or leaving a relationship and walking away, or stone walling and ignoring but I don't think that generally, ignoring people or ignoring situations that are calling and crying for attention is the solution. I

Marcel Schwantes 32:44

Okay, so I wanted to touch on something that I think closely mirrors acknowledgement and speak in a mirror. I just said it, it's mirroring, mirroring love. So I'm actually the way you described it in an email that you sent to me. I'm just going to read it, and I want you to break that down for us. Okay, so the importance of mirroring, mirroring the love in others back to them, especially when they are in a difficult place, brings out their potential and transformation. That really spoke to me. So explain mirroring, mirroring, love.

Samantha Thomas 33:22

Yeah, so we're all a mirror for each other, right? We can't see ourselves the way others see us, and the mirror is very significant because of that in any relationship. And going back to the principle of acknowledgement, if someone that you know say it's a colleague at work that's going through a difficult situation, a challenging season of life, if you know someone like this and they are a friend of yours or a colleague, it can be really useful to them during that time when they feel low, to remind them of who they can be and to mirror that back to them, their highest self and what They might not see in themselves, or feel in themselves or about themselves in that moment, because we all know that when we feel low or we're going through a challenging time and we can feel depressed, the mind has lots of monsters that hang out there and voices that tell us that we are not worthy. We're not just deserving. We're a phony. We're a fraud. We're not going to make it. You know, the list could go on and on, and because we can't see ourselves as others see us. We only experience what's in our mind, right? Yeah, other people can be. A light at that time and a mirror for us and reflect back to us what they see. It, it's, actually, it's, there's a quote. You're gonna have to edit this out, because I don't remember the quote.

Samantha Thomas 35:20

That's okay. I don't want I was gonna look it up, but you'll edit this part out, right? Yes. So yeah, being a mirror for each other is can be very powerful, and help people to get through difficult times, help them to change. And also, going back to our conversation about maybe people that are not behaving in a loving way and or an ethical way, we can be a mirror for them too, and say, Hey, that that's Not okay. And I also see that your true self and who you really are when you when you are you know, in a good frame of mind and feeling secure in yourself, because usually people only behave in unloving ways when they're feeling insecure about themselves. And so we wouldn't say this to someone directly, necessarily, like, I see that you're feeling insecure, so this is why you're behaving that way. But there can be ways that psychologically, we can when we see someone behaving in a way that we don't agree with or we don't believe is right or fair, we can say, Hey, Bob, that's not you. You're so funny. You're such a great guy. You have the biggest heart. Like, what's upsetting you right now? What's really underneath this? That's the mirror too.

Marcel Schwantes 36:56

Love it. Okay, so I know that a lot of a lot of a lot of the things we're talking about, are we related to self-love? I, and I know that some of it will move into the area of, how do we love others? But self-love, what the research calls loving kindness, is sometimes starts with us like you know, we aren't at full capacity to love others in our community, in our work spaces, until we are able to love ourselves first. And of course, we touched on this at the beginning. It starts with doing the work, doing the work of introspection, self-awareness, understanding our blind spots, right, dealing with unresolved issues, emotional issues that hold us back. Okay? So that's the work that leads to loving yourself, being more self-compassionate, which paves the way to the other things. But I wanted to touch on something that you Well, that, I guess, you propose, and that's the idea of faith and hope and love. And I'm wondering if there's a connection here. When you talk about faith and hope, a lot of us don't, we're, we're, you know we're, we're looking at the world now in a doomsday scenario like, oh my gosh, there's no hope for us. You know we're, we're headed to down the path of, I mean, look at what's happening in LA with the wildfires. And now it's getting political, and people are back to pointing fingers at each other, right? This is crazy. It's madness. And so how do we get back to a place of hope, hope for each other, hope for us as Okay? Well, what's my role in society, to offer hope or to experience hope myself and then offer hope out to the world. And how does that play out? Play, play with elements of love, maybe as well as faith, as well faith, hope, love,

Samantha Thomas 39:11

yeah. Great question, big question. And I'm going to start from the beginning, because I actually really, I'm hesitant to say this. I am not a big fan of the phrase self love, and I will tell you why, and I think it ties into also the end of what you were just saying, Marcel, where people are finger pointing, and we do so commonly about our politics and self love. I think the intention behind that concept is good. However, I see it going awry. And backfiring in a lot of cases, because the focus again is on the self.

Samantha Thomas 40:15

Love is about extending ourselves for the growth of ourselves or another, but it's really about going above and beyond the self. Now, let me pause and say this does not mean that you should neglect yourself, not at all, in fact, taking care of yourself, making sure that you are developing yourself personally and growing in all the ways that you can is your greatest duty as a human being, because when you are in your strongest place as yourself, you will be of the greatest service to others and the world.

Samantha Thomas 41:12

The I think the self-love concept feeds a lot into it just puts too much focus on us, and we need to leave the self behind in certain ways, when it comes to love. Do you see the difference in what I mean that it's we have this duty toward to ourselves, to be strong and grow into our greatest selves, but it's kind of similar to, like, the self care, like, I don't know like just to feels a little bit narcissistic to me, and I hate using that word too. It's just throwing around like popcorn these days.

Marcel Schwantes 41:47

I got it. It's the idea of that if you start to get into this comfort zone of self love, then you're almost, you're becoming, what's the word? It's not self Well, yeah, you're not growing because you are leaning on a crutch to always have self-affirmation and self-gratification and all those things that limit your ability to grow and become a whole person. Is that? Is that kind of where.

Samantha Thomas 42:18

Yeah, similar. I mean, if I Yeah, that makes sense. I'm not saying that we shouldn't have affirmations and talk positively to ourselves and that kind of thing. I'm just thinking about like expanding to, like, a broader scale here and zooming out. And when we look at leaders who led by an ethic of love and a place of love like Gandhi or Mandela or Jesus Christ. Do you think these people were sitting around thinking like, I should really love myself more like I were sitting there, you know, like they're thinking about the other How can I serve? And, of course, I mean, these people seemed self-loving, if we want to look at it that way, and use that phrase in the sense that they were strong in themselves. They were secure in themselves. They had definiteness of purpose, and they were on a mission, and the mission was bigger than them. Yeah, it wasn't about them, and then, and then, through that, it's like when we lose ourselves in something greater than ourselves, that's when love for the self also develops, like it happens through extending for others and not thinking so much about Our damn selves. Oh, so that's what I mean there. 

And then going back to the faith and hope, faith, hope and love and how they tie together. And you mentioned the wildfires in Los Angeles. Now the finger pointing of people in, you know, politically speaking, you know, that's the finger pointing is also about us because we're thinking about our personal agenda right and what we think is right, rather than coming together and trying to Find a harmonious solution and expanding and transcending our agendas and judgments. And this doesn't mean that you just throw your beliefs up in the air and behind you toss them aside. It just means that you are open to a resolution that is in the favor of everyone, not just you and what you think is right, and the faith and hope. I know this is seems a little bit convoluted. I hope I can tie it all together, because they all of this really does tie together, but the faith and the hope part like, how do we find faith and hope in in such trying? Times. And I mean, humanity has gone through trying times through since the beginning of civilization. 

This is not new. There's always been a trying time, you know. I mean, these times are unprecedented in certain ways, sure, and every you know, generation has its unique challenges. Faith is, once again, like acknowledgement, one of those principles of love, and I wouldn't even say necessarily, a principle like acknowledgement. It's more so like it is faith, hope and love are like this triangle, and they depend on one another completely without faith, you we don't have love. Faith is what allows us to keep going. Faith is what allows us to continue creating life because we believe there is meaning and there is a future, and there's possibility without that, we have nothing if we decided to stop having children today, every single person in the world because they didn't have faith that the future was safe, life would not go on, right? Love would not exist, because we need to this is a little bit intense, but make love. Have the you know, make love to create life and faith. Without faith, we're not going to make love, and that's like, literal and figurative. 

And then the hope part is like, faith is the belief, and it's almost like an intuitive knowing that things are okay always, like, no matter what happens, things are going to be okay. And we keep going because we have a purpose. Hope is like, I'm not sure things are going to be okay, but I'm hopeful. Yeah, and you have to have that too, because sometimes we really are uncertain. So that's how I think they tie together. And I believe that the faith piece is absolutely essential, and we have to keep going always, and we will we do. That's what humans do. That's what makes us unique and special, is that is that we do have our faith, and it's what keeps us in our purpose and keeps us moving.

Marcel Schwantes 47:27

Right, right and 100% and I think this is a great segue for the interplay or the relationship between love and trust, because if you have the faith And the hope to carry forward despite hard things happening and obstacles in your path, and you are surrounded by people that believe in you and trust in you, you know, and it helps you, helps to carry you forward and I mean, there's So much reach research out there that talks about concepts, concepts of love cannot or trust cannot happen. Trust is sort of like the top of the mountain, but it can't You can't get to the top of the mountain until you have enough points of connection. People feel like they belong, they're not isolated, they don't feel, you know, lonely. And there is great communication and really healthy communities and communities of practice and collaboration and all that when I'm in that space, and, you know whether it's work or, you know, if I'm volunteering in a community and, and I experienced that, man, it's like it feels like magic. It's like things just gel and, and, but I think a lot of that has to do with shared values, when you're in a space where people have the same understanding of how the world operates, and I think that that helps with the trust development. So talk a little bit about the relationship between love and trust. And do you have to have trust to be able to love Well, or do we just trust first, without having a basis of, is this person going to take advantage of you, not, and then love? Kind of help happens from there. Help us understand that? 

Samantha Thomas 49:42

Yeah, that's another great question. So another word that just came to mind as you were talking about trust, was caution, because I think that there's a good distinction to be made here. Initially I was going to say what I do believe, which is that without trust, we have nothing. And don't have love without trust. We have to be able to trust one another at the same time we should. That doesn't mean we don't proceed in life with caution. Okay? So just want to make that distinction. If you think back to, you know, similar to what we were talking about at the beginning of our conversation, when we reflect back on our lives and think about all the times that you've trusted in a really big way, taken a big step to trust someone or a new job or a new relationship, this is kind of synonymous with like, taking a risk. So the times that you've taken a big risk and trusted and even if the situation didn't pan out the way that you thought it would, or maybe it did, and was even better, and it was, you know, it was great. 

But aren't those moments in your life, those times when you've made those that that choice to trust the biggest like most memorable, even if some of them were painful, and weren't those the times in your life where you probably grew the most, whether you were in an environment where you decided to trust you know a new community, community of people that were aligned with a similar vision to you, and You are in an environment that you felt good about that that's one form of trust that that pans out well, right? But there might be another time in your life where you trusted a relationship with a person that had positives and negatives and then ended up, you know, in a crash or something like that, and ending. But how much did you learn from that? Probably a lot, right? And it doesn't mean that like you'll go back and do that and trust in the same way again, but it's a learning experience, and now you're wiser and can proceed forward with a new a new idea of you know what you want and don't want. So getting back to the question of like, can you have one without the other? Love, without trust and trust without love? No, we have to have both at the same time, and trust if we don't trust, if we don't take risks, we can't do anything you have to trust. 

Marcel Schwantes 52:47

Yeah, so much here that's going through my head. That is, I know that listeners are probably so going, Wait a minute, whoa, whoa. Time out here. Marcel, okay, yeah. Because, yes, I have seen it both, both ways, where a I trust someone, or I trust a group of people, and I get burnt because they, you know, they burn bridges, and I got burned, right? And any, and any other scenario is I sort of choose to trust out of faith. Like, okay, I need to step out of this comfort zone that I'm in, perhaps once I recognize I'm in a comfort zone, I'm like, okay, man, it's not what, it's not what I'm 100% comfortable with, but I'm going to trust the process. And yes, I've experienced amazing things that a growth that happens out of the willingness or the bravery to trust first, yes, but to the first scenario, when I got burnt, I didn't know that that was a learning experience. 

Later, as you look back at the moment where you got burned or, you know, people failed you, or they betrayed you, you know, yeah, nobody wants to go through that, but I see what you're saying. It's a hard pill to swallow. Is that as I look back at those moments where I trusted and I got burned, yeah, later I was I grew out of the situation, it gave me new perspective of how, how selective I have to be in my in my trust. It gave me new understanding of okay, I need to know what kind of people or what kind of situations I can freely trust without hunkering down, without stonewalling, without putting up walls, right? I think that's where the growth happened, is I'm still willing to trust first, but now I. Know, because of my growth and my understanding of how I operate, operate, how the world operates, I think that I'm, I'm, I'm a little more selective and who I trust. And again, that comes from growth. That comes from having been burned, you know, a few times in the past.

Samantha Thomas 55:21

Yeah, well said. And so we become more selective, or maybe rather just cautious. I think where it can become dangerous is when we become too selective of or discriminating of who we're willing to trust, and not because we don't want to get hurt again, or because we're afraid and acting out of fear and just keeping people at arm's length and kind of like isolating or we always have this wall up because we've been burned before. We don't want to walk through the world like scarred and being afraid of people because of what's happened before, but we take that wisdom and we proceed with caution, and we're just a little bit more careful, but we never want to stop trusting, because that's where trust is. Without trust, we can't move forward with each other. We have to trust each other. We have to believe and trust that people can change, that people are well intentioned, and that even if it doesn't seem like they are now, that there is trust, that there is possibility for change and healing, and people reading reaching their greatest potential, even if they are not in that place right now. 

And once again, going back to part of our discussion earlier, talking about acknowledgement and the principle of acknowledgement and how it's not always our place to be that person that helps the person who is not in a good place right now and is being harmful or abusive, but trusting that and doing whatever we can to help in any way we can in the moment, and then trusting that there is a solution for that person eventually, or that situation eventually and not I just can't emphasize enough how harmful also throw away culture is when we just look at each other like there's no possibility for growth, and this person just is the way that they are, or this situation is just the way that it is. It's never going to change. It's always been this way. No, if you say that, then, yes, it will always be that way, and they will always be that way, and the situation will always be that way, as long as we say that that is how it will be, if we decide to trust that there and have faith and believe and have hope that There is a better way than there will be. There is we create this. This is us, yeah, this is our story. We create this. It's up to us.

Marcel Schwantes 58:33

Yeah. And boy, I'm finding more and more So full disclosure, I got sucked into the whole political drama, political theater, and choosing sides and, you know, playing in the playground of the culture wars on social media. Okay? This is going back three years ago, okay, in the height of the pandemic, when everything, when the world went to hell in the in a hand basket, right? Toxic polarization. Was that an all-time high. We're talking 2021 maybe 2022 and man, I was an active participant. I was slamming people and defending my worldview and my politics and all that and, you know, I think it dawned on me last year, sometime a year ago, that that if I, if I find common humanity with those that are not of my political belief system or value system, I'm finding that I actually I can actually start to develop more trust for them. So in other words, instead of you completely shutting down pathways to communication and trying to understand and listen. 

And stop trusting. It's to just be curious about okay, okay, that person is doesn't believe the way I do, etc., but I need to understand their perspective. And in in in doing that and finding common humanity. They do the same. And as we get to sort of like try to understand each other and come to the table and dialog, here's the trust piece. Even though you know the walls start to come down, and you begin to trust that person more, you begin to have more respectful conversations with that person, rather than just shutting them down, shutting down any, any chance for dialog and staying in your, you know, in Your little box, yeah, political box. So, yeah, I totally see that, that as we branch out, as we open up our minds and get to experience other people's points of views, it lends to helping to build bridges in those in the in the build bridging, you get more trust.

Samantha Thomas 1:01:22

Yeah, yeah, the cancel culture similar to throwaway culture, you know, basically same thing, yeah, not cool. Not into it. That's not gonna No that. First of all, we don't really that. That's not what we want long term, like people think they want to cancel each other out or just dispose of people. That's a React, a reaction. That's a fearful reaction. We don't want to be separate from one another. We want to be united like that's in our heart of hearts. That's what every human being wants, usually, when we are acting in those harmful ways, that's coming from a place of anger, sadness, insecurity, not feeling good, because there is a separateness, but we really want to be together. So, like, it's, I just, I'm so against the cancel culture. I love Marcel that you recognize, you know, like, Oh, I was in this place a few years ago. Online, kind of playing into the, I don't know what did you call them culture wars, online, on social media, or something like that. 

And I mean you and so many people like the world, you know that it becomes a cesspool these platforms, and a place where people you know just sitting behind a computer screen or their phone and attacking one another. It's like, and I don't see, I doubt you were, you were like that, but I you know they're different. It's a spectrum. And I, I think that I love that you recognize, like, I was in this place a few years ago doing this, and I don't really like you're recognizing about yourself, like I don't want to do that, and I don't want to maybe use my time doing that. I want to contribute in a different way or and it's so I love that example, because it's like it reminds me of what we were talking about in the beginning of our conversation, when you were asking me about my story, and I was talking about how the last handful of years have been very self reflective for me, and I've been learning about myself more and who I want to be and who I don't want to be. 

The mistakes I've made in the past, how I want to change, how I have changed, how to let go of negative behavioral patterns, things that are getting way in the way of relationship with others, etc, etc. The list can go on, and it's like, and we look back at things that we did, whether it's 10 years ago, 15 years ago, three years ago, two months ago yesterday, that we didn't like that we did, and then we say, You know what, I don't want to do that anymore. And that's great. That's so good, like you're forgiven, doesn't it doesn't matter what you did yesterday, you are who you are today. And if you say, I don't want to be who I was yesterday. You don't have to be and it's okay because you're forgiven, yeah? It's all good,

Marcel Schwantes 1:04:26

yeah, okay, one last soap box moment for me about trust, okay? And then I'll let it go, because I want to talk about something else. But if you are suspicious of someone because of a certain rigid narrative that you're following perpetrated by the media you are bowing down to your own ideology. Once you stop bowing to that ideology and start to engage in real conversations with people that may think differently than you, that's when you're going to experience new awareness and new commonalities. 

Here's a crazy thought. I think we have more in common with people that we that that think differently than us, then the differences that we are influenced by the media narratives. I believe that once we hop off the bandwagon of the media narratives and the ideology political ideologies, we will find more in common with those people that we disagree with that we're torching on social media. If we sit down with them and learn about their lives, their families, their work, their hobbies, you know, their sense of whatever. Well, I really believe that once we break down those walls, we're going to find way more in common with those people, because that's our humanity. Yeah, so that's my soapbox moment. 

Samantha Thomas 1:05:59

No, I'm so glad you said that, because you actually reminded me of I was trying to bring what I was just explaining full circle to that point. And that was, like, the end point was really what I was trying to say, is that when we react to people and their beliefs and our beliefs, and we have these, like, we think we have these different beliefs, I don't really think our beliefs are all that different, that when we're reacting like fighting with each other about what we believe, that's not real, that's coming from a place of fear, and our our own fears, if you lift that up like you're saying Marcel, our, our what we believe in what we need, what each human being needs to be happy and healthy and free, it's the same for all of us. We're not different in that way, like the our differences are so minuscule. 

Marcel Schwantes 1:06:57

Yeah, all right, so here's a I want to touch on whenever I come into an organization as a, you know, they bring me on as a coach, and I'm assessing the health of a of a culture, etc, if the engagement scores are low and the employee satisfaction scores are low And I sense in my personal interviews with employees and managers that things are not going well, that people are putting up walls, and there are silos, etc. The first thing I notice is that there's an absence of psychological safety. Why? Because fear has permeated the organization. So I sit down with an executive team, and I say the your first priority, you want a healthy culture. You want people talking to each other, and you want information to flow in all directions and people becoming transparent, and which leads to high performance. I tell them your first priority, borrowing from my friend and the co-author, excuse me, the preface writer of my book, rich Sheridan. He says, You have to pump the fear from the atmosphere. Okay, so that's the first act. So it's figuring out. What does that mean? Is it micromanagement? Is it bureaucracy? Is it disrespect? Is it what is it that's causing people to not feel safe at work, to contribute their best? And so I always find that it's fear. So I want you to kind of one of the last things that we'll talk about, and then I'll wind down here into our next segment, is the relationship between love and fear. And how does fear hold us back from experiencing our whole selves at work.

Samantha Thomas 1:09:04

Oh, big question, the relationship between love and fear, and how does fear hold us back from expressing our full selves at work? So there are, there could be so many reasons why people feel afraid at work, right? So first, gotta identify what are they afraid of? And like you said, Marcel, this comes down to psychological safety. Like people we are in a state of fear in our mind, right? Like it's not physical. Fear is only evident when we're well, this doesn't happen anymore, but when we had to run from a lion, you know otherwise, like people are afraid at work because they are, there's something psychologically that they know is they don't feel safe. Mm. Right? And without that, you don't have a workplace that can be loving, because fear and love can't exist at the same time. So that's the short answer. Is there a specific way that, or kind of like tactic that you're looking for your listeners to be able to apply? 

Marcel Schwantes 1:10:32

Yeah, I think I, I think the tactic is what I mentioned, that holds those, those places back when, when the organization is stifled by fear, people can't perform at a high level. That is proven over and over and over again. That's the whole one of the biggest things that you know, that I do in my work is to eliminate the fear, or enriches the case, pump the fear from the atmosphere. So, yeah, so I think the tactic is to understand what's causing the fear, right? I think that's and that is a process that could take literally months, because it could be, I mentioned way, way at the beginning, it could be that you inherited a culture of fear. So you have to break down all of the remaining strongholds of fear and yeah, and kind of deconstruct that whole deconstruct a culture of fear to a culture of love and growth and purpose. So, yeah, so that's a, it's a question that we're going to leave open ended, because for our listeners that are in leadership roles, you need to figure, Figure out what that is for you. 

Samantha Thomas 1:11:56

Yeah, figure out the fear. 

Marcel Schwantes 1:11:59

Yeah. How is fear holding back your organization, your employees, how you lead?

Samantha Thomas 1:12:05

And how can you make people feel less afraid? Here's the thing, though, yeah, is that fear and love are the most powerful forces in the world. Love can overpower fear. These two forces are used to manipulate people or to either inspire or, let's say, these two forces. I don't, I don't like using the word manipulate like as if I'm saying that in a negative way. I'm just literally using the word like a in its literal sense, like manipulate means to alter, to change, to push in a certain direction. And it doesn't necessarily mean a bad direction. But what I'm saying with love and fear is that these forces are so incredibly powerful that if we lead, if we are leaders, leading from a place of fear, we can instill fear in people and have and they behave in a way that we either want to have them behave because we want to make them afraid to not do something, or to follow us in some way, or we can leave from a place of love and have them act in other ways that we'd like them to act. I think, you know, I don't know, maybe we cut this part because it's, I was about to start talking about Hitler, yeah, but I don't know, maybe we can. I was just gonna say, you know, you look at leaders like Hitler, he inspired a lot of people through fear, right? 

And then there are leaders that inspired a lot of people through love, like Martin Luther King Jr, like Jesus. And what kind of leader do you want to be? How do you want the people that you're serving and that you're leading to view you, and how do you want them to be in the world? And what changes do you want them to make? And I think you know, if the answer is you want them to feel empowered and inspired and to be their greatest self at home and at work, then that means you're a leader that's doing the work yourself of growing yourself and being the best that you can be and you are healthy, and you are working on being a strong person. And if you're doing that, then you're going to empower the people that are in your workplace and the people who follow you to be the same way. And I think most of your listeners, probably all, are those people, um. Yeah, but yeah, I'll just leave it with love and fear are the most powerful voice forces, and you have the choice of which one you want to lead with in your organization. Uh,

Marcel Schwantes 1:15:14

Samantha, as we wind down here, is there anything that we have not covered, that you're just urging to get out like that. Our listeners absolutely must know.

Samantha Thomas 1:15:27

I mean, I can always talk about these things more, but I think that we covered a lot today, and this is a pretty complex conversation, so I feel good. 

Marcel Schwantes 1:15:35

Yeah, good deal. We started a new segment. It's the speed round. I kicked it off with Heather Wickman on the last episode. So you're the second one. So here we go. You ready? I fire questions at you. You fire your answers back at me,

Samantha Thomas 1:15:51

I guess. So as ready as I'll ever be, think on your feet.

Marcel Schwantes 1:15:55

All right. Best book you've ever read?

Samantha Thomas 1:16:00

Ever, I'm not going to say, ever read that I'm reading right now, because I'm reading a handful. But guys, if you're, if you're looking or watching, you can look at the screen Outwitting the Devil by Napoleon Hill. This is, this is up there, finishing it now, almost done.

Marcel Schwantes 1:16:19

One simple practice I can start doing today to bring more love into my life.

Samantha Thomas 1:16:27

Be in the present moment. Get out of your head.

Marcel Schwantes 1:16:32

I love it. Okay. Best way to break the divide we find ourselves in,

Samantha Thomas 1:16:39

the divide in the world.

Marcel Schwantes 1:16:42

Name a person dead or alive you'd like to have dinner with?

Samantha Thomas 1:16:45

Whoa, wait, I didn't answer that last one. Did I sorry? Let me go.

Samantha Thomas 1:16:52

Yeah. Sorry. Ask that one again. You divide in the world, right?

Marcel Schwantes 1:16:57

Yeah, let me, let me clarify that. We'll, we'll clean this up. Best way to break the divide we find ourselves in. What did I mean by that? 

Samantha Thomas 1:17:04

Yeah, you mean like the divide we find ourselves in as a society in a world. 

Marcel Schwantes 1:17:12

Yeah, exactly. So I'll rephrase it and with as a society. Okay, okay, here we go. Best way to break this divide that we find ourselves in as a society.

Samantha Thomas 1:17:27

Seek to understand each other, even if you don't understand on the surface,

Marcel Schwantes 1:17:33

Love that. Name a person dead or alive, that you would love to have dinner with.

Samantha Thomas 1:17:41

I am currently obsessed with Riley Green. What woman in the world isn't Riley Green? If you're listening, you can take me to dinner sometime.

Marcel Schwantes 1:17:51

We'll make sure to tag Riley and in the social media. All right, your biggest hope for 2025

Samantha Thomas 1:18:02

A farmhouse I'm ready to live in my cabin of a farmhouse.

Marcel Schwantes 1:18:08

Wow, it's not only a hope. It's a wish.

Samantha Thomas 1:18:11

Okay, this isn't this is not love related. Well, it's love related for my life. So that's my hope for my place, and I hope that the world and other people get the same feeling that I'll have living in my farmhouse in all aspects of their life, which is of abundance and comfort and safety and security and animals they bring.

Marcel Schwantes 1:18:37

I hope that didn't make you sound like you know, a Miss America contestant, well, what's your best hope for the world? Well, to have a peace.

Samantha Thomas 1:18:48

Hey, you know my work is quite serious a lot of the time, or I feel like these conversations can get a little bit heavy, so I gotta add a little like, silly yeah thing at the end. But also, that's real. I really want my farmhouse. 

Marcel Schwantes 1:19:00

All right, all right. Well, I'm gonna hold you to that hope, that personal hope.

Samantha Thomas 1:19:06

Thank you. Okay,

Marcel Schwantes 1:19:09

you're you've survived the speed round, so congratulations.

Samantha Thomas 1:19:14

Thank you. And I have one question for you, if I may ask you more. But what's your biggest hope for 2025

Marcel Schwantes 1:19:21

My biggest hope for 2025 is that the work that I really I mean, it's not just for 2025 you can go back every year. I think the answer would be the same. Is that the work that I do, the enormous amount of time I put into podcast and writing and coaching and training and everything that goes with that serves a greater purpose, well beyond me and that when I kick the bucket you. That the principles and ideas and concepts will outlive me and move and continue to spread outwardly. That's my that's my hope, and it's tied to my mission in life, to end suffering in the world and suffering in the workplaces and bring more joy and purpose and growth in the places we spend the most time are awake hours in which is the workplace.

Samantha Thomas 1:20:32

I love that, and I second that, and it's funny comparing our two hopes for 2025 I think about how yours is more world facing and for the world, and then mine's like, I'm talking about my farmhouse, but also tying the two together. A really important point that I think should be made always in these discussions is that love starts at home, so literally and figuratively, like whether it's in that farmhouse of yours or your apartment at home with yourself, we have to start here and at home first, and we have to create environments at home that are healthy, that are secure, that are stable, for our children, for our families, and with the people closest to us, and from there, the world becomes that. So I just love how our two visions tie together, Marcel. 

Marcel Schwantes 1:21:28

Awesome, awesome. Okay, we bring it home with those two traditional questions, as we do with every guest. The first one, we've already covered so much of it. But boil down. The first question is always like, you know, how do we lead with more actionable, practical love? Hence the title of the podcast, loving action. But boil it down, what? What would you recommend for that kind of loving, loving action? What do we need to do every day.

Samantha Thomas 1:22:00

It's super simple, and you're probably not going to like it. Forget about yourself a little bit more. Stop thinking about yourself. Lose Yourself. Allow yourself to be lost. Open up. Seek to understand. Allow yourself to change. Stop focusing on yourself, extend outward,

Marcel Schwantes 1:22:25

Yeah, okay, bring us home. What's one thing, one key takeaway that you'd like us to walk away with.

Samantha Thomas 1:22:41

Never give up. Keep the faith. Whether you're in a good place right now or not so good place, if you're in a good place, you'll end up you know, there'll be another point soon. Well, let me start over. Scratch that. Never give up and keep your faith. Whether things are going good for you right now or not so good, the one thing that you can count on is that things will change always, and there's always tomorrow and you have the opportunity to be whatever you want to be and lead however you want to lead the moment you make the decision and the choice to do that.

Marcel Schwantes 1:23:30

Sounds a lot like hope, faith and trust.

Samantha Thomas 1:23:36

Yes, faith, hope and love.

Marcel Schwantes 1:23:37

Yes, okay, I want to send a boatload, a big boatload of people your way to connect with you. And how can they do that? Great,

Samantha Thomas 1:23:50

I love boats. You can connect with me in a few places, justchoose love.com is my website. You can find me there coaching services, info on my blog and my writings, I have a Substack, which is justchooselove.sub stack.com, subscribe there, and you can follow me on Instagram @lovebyst.

Marcel Schwantes 1:24:19

Awesome. Yeah. I'll put that in my show notes. So visit the website for all of that contact info, so you can connect with Samantha, ask her questions, visit her website. Her blogs are amazing. Her sub stack platform is amazing with her ideas and thoughts that keeps evolving and as she does her research. So check it out. Hey, it's been real again. I know we're going to do it again. So thanks for hopping back on this one.

Samantha Thomas 1:24:50

Thank you so much for having me. It's always a pleasure Marcel. 

Marcel Schwantes 1:24:52

Likewise, and folks, you can keep the conversation going on social media with #loveinactionpodcast. And as I mentioned, my show notes are going to be on the website. There's going to be a YouTube link so you can watch this if you prefer all of that stuff you'll find at marcelschwantes.com. For Samantha Thomas, I'm Marcel Schwantes, keep loving yourself and others, and great things will happen. We'll see you next time.