Heather Younger: How to Master Self-Leadership

Episode recap:

Marcel and Heather Younger explored the crucial role of self-leadership in leading others effectively. Younger discussed her new book, The Art of Self-Leadership, emphasizing that self-leadership is the foundation of effective leadership and highlighting the importance of self-awareness, emotional resilience, and personal growth. Heather shared her journey from corporate challenges to entrepreneurship, underscoring the need to reframe setbacks as learning opportunities and prioritize self-care. They discussed the connection between mental health and leadership, drawing from personal experiences and high-profile examples like Simone Biles and Kevin Love. Recognizing fear-driven actions, setting clear expectations in relationships, and embracing self-love were key takeaways, reinforcing that strong leadership starts with mastering oneself. 

Bio

Heather R Younger, J.D, CSP, is a former practicing lawyer who demonstrates how to put empathy into action through the power of Caring Leadership®.

She is the visionary Founder and CEO of Employee Fanatix, a preeminent employee engagement and workplace culture consulting firm to Fortune 100 companies. 

Heather has been named to the Thinkers50 Radar 25, is an award-winning leader in the area of Employee Engagement as recognized by Inspiring Workplaces, is a LinkedIn Learning course partner, 3-time best-selling author, TEDx speaker, and the host of the popular Leadership With Heart podcast.

Quotes:

• "If we don't get ourselves right, I don't care how big your team is. You're never going to be as effective as you want to be."
• "Our behaviors and our intentional choices determine how we show up for others and for ourselves."
• "We can't spill out into the world with all the love we really have inside of us unless we develop the love inside of us for ourselves."

Takeaways:

• Conduct a self-audit on your personal values - identify the ones you truly believe in and assess how well you are living up to them on a daily basis.
• Establish clear expectations and communication with your manager or team - don't wait for them to set the agenda, take initiative to drive your own progress.
• Prioritize self-care practices that nurture your mental, physical, and emotional well-being - find activities that recharge and fortify you.
• Approach feedback with an open mindset - view it as a gift, even if it's difficult to hear, and look for opportunities to grow.
• Stop waiting for the "green lights" - take ownership of your personal journey and create the change you seek, rather than relying on others.

Timestamps:

[00:04] Introduction

[03:54] How a tough layoff led Heather to a new purpose

[06:24] Why self-leadership is the key to real success

[11:36] The link between self-awareness, fear, and confidence

[21:51] Small wins, self-care, and treating yourself like a brand

[44:01] How to stop fear from holding you back in work and life

[45:42] The secret to better communication and stronger influence

[51:21] Why self-advocacy matters and how to take control now

Links/Resources:

Buy The Art of Self-Leadership - https://www.caringleadershiplearning.com/selfleadershipbook

Heather Younger website - https://heatheryounger.com/

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/heatherryounger/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/heatherryoungerofficial/ 

Transcript

Marcel Schwantes 00:05

hey, welcome, welcome. So, we on the show here. Talk a lot about leading people, Duh, of course, this is what the show is about. It's a leadership show, and we talk a lot about team leadership, engaging others, that sort of thing, which puts the focus on, you know, serving others. And that's great, because I'm a huge advocate for servant leadership, but there's this, this whole big piece of the puzzle that, well, kind of starts with you leading yourself. And, okay, I'll be the first to tell you that as the host of this show that I probably don't spend enough time talking about self-leadership, because, hey, let's be honest, if you can't lead yourself, well, how do you expect to lead others effectively? So, my good friend Heather younger, who I've had on the show before, addresses this topic in her new book, it's coming out next month. We're recording this on January 10. Her book comes out early February, and the book is entitled The Art of Self-Leadership. Discover the power within you and learn to lead yourself. How fitting. So how that Heather younger? In case you have not heard about Heather is a truly a celebrated workplace culture and employee engagement expert. She is a four-time author. She's donned TEDx stages, and let me put the focus back on this book, because in this book, and really in this conversation, Heather is going to deliver this, this practical discussion of how really to develop this, this entirely new mindset around personal advocacy and self-leadership. So, she's going to talk about how we can exercise our sphere of control and influence. She's going to tell you how to manage your anxiety and stress with self-care techniques. We'll figure out all that stuff later. And you know, even like communication, how to set clear and realistic goals and expectations for ourselves as well as for others. Hey, there's this whole thing about fear mentality. How do we overcome our fear? A lot of emotional stuff that hinders us as leaders, that holds us back, right? So, all of that, and much, much more. Heather's going to kind of teach us how to become more personally effective again, by addressing the self-leadership side of the equation. And I can't wait to dive into this discussion. And Heather younger now joins us, and welcome back friend. Welcome to the love and action podcast. 

Heather Younger 02:59

Well, hello, thanks for having me. You know, I love being with you. Marcel.

Marcel Schwantes 03:04

We always have fun, don't we? We really

Heather Younger 03:06

do get just two peas in the pod, like, you know, geeking out on leadership, all things servant leadership, caring leadership. 

Marcel Schwantes 03:12

Yeah. And if you're watching on YouTube, there's, I'm in my sweatshirt because it's, it's Friday afternoon, and I'm expecting about eight inches of snow outside. I'm looking out the window. Is a blizzard out there, and so everybody's inside cozy. I got the fireplace on my hot chocolate and all that. Heather is headed to a funeral, and she is looking, you're in your Sunday best, if you will. I mean, it's like, your kind of showing me up a little bit.

Heather Younger 03:45

Yeah, okay, what they, we didn't tell them, is that this is just kind of like post workout. I didn't even like shower. We could really go there. I just like, went, okay, time to go. And that's where we're at. So this is the realness of all the things. 

Marcel Schwantes 04:00

Well, you look fantastic, friend. Thank you. Yes. All right. For those not familiar with you, your background, your work, we start to show that like this. So, let's just, let's do a quick refresher. What's your story?

Heather Younger 04:18

Oh, boy. Well, I mean, boy, I'm not going to go way, way back. But what I will say is this, that I was working at a company. There was a merger of five companies, and I was leading customer experience at the time, but the environment inside that merging environment got really yucky. And I know many of you know what I mean when you're in that kind of crazy change situation. And so, everybody around me was getting fearful. They were afraid they're going to be laid off, you know, they just didn't trust anybody. And I, too, felt the same way. So, I went to the head of HR, I told her, hey, like, we've got to do something about this engagement, about our mistrust. And she said, You're right. You should go do something about that. And I thought, okay, I'm leading customer experience, not HR, but sure, I'll like be that one. And so. I decided to create a like employee engagement Council, bringing people together who kind of already come to me over those previous months, expressing concern, but wanting to be the change they were seeking. And so created a council. Council, starting to think about, how could we break down some of these walls in this trust? How can we do something that will impact everybody's psyche in a more positive way, in a place where we really lack control, because when you're in that kind of change environment, you feel like you don't have as much control. And so, we did things, and it made the culture start to improve, and it felt good, but there was a big layoff that took place, and I was one of the first 200 people in that organization laid off, and it was a big ouch, ouch, ouch. And I let myself get, like, stay in the muck for a little bit, let myself be, you know, anxious and fearful and all the things, like, I can't get a job, I can't keep my house, I can't keep my kids in school, all the things. And then I got to the point where I said, okay, Heather, I'm okay, you this has got to stop. Like, this has got to stop. So, I call it like flipping the switch. And I flipped the switch in my head that said, these thoughts that were not good for me, they don't serve me. I'm going to stop them right here. And I decided to intentionally at that point what I call reframing. I decided to reframe that situation in something that was more rational and one that served me. And I thought, okay, I learned a lot there. I gosh, I got stronger. I could gain new skills. I met my best friend, I got a severance, and now I'm here talking to Marcel for the second time, and it all started with that layoff. And so, I think that's kind of part of the journey, and it is interesting, because I do know what's embedded in that is a lot of self-leadership, where I had to kind of stop myself from being in that yucky place and then, like, there you go. I really haven't looked back since I've had really great years. Had start. I did go on to work at another place for about a year and a half, but I was writing my first book, and I was totally nuts and crazy, like I was just going out of my mind, and not going to lie, as I was working full time, doing a book, consulting, and all these things that were happening and then just decided it's time to no longer do all the things and to do the things that serve me some more. So, I went on to do my own business, and now that's where I'm at now today, helping organizations with culture, engagement, leadership, things like that.

Marcel Schwantes 07:08

Yeah, you know that that's I love that story, and I think that the theme of self-leadership is is going to be a reality check for a lot of us, including you and me, because we talked offline a little bit about how we need to stay on top of our self-leadership game as well in order to serve our communities and our clients better. And because if we don't, I think it holds us back. That's going to be a theme running through this conversation, I think. So, let's, let's just get right to it. So, I'm going to pull back the books, the book. I introduced a book in them, in my intro, but in your own words. How would you describe it?

Heather Younger 07:48

I see this book as part self-help, part personal development, parts leadership development. So it's all the things, and it's because over time, one of the things has become really clear to me is that if we each individually in our own chairs and our own seats in the place we stand, sit interacting people do not decide to take control of how we show up for ourselves first and for others Second, our outcomes are going to be mediocre at best, and so We have to be the ones that make different choices. It is about our choices, like we are a mash up of our choices. If you think about it, we have our past which impacts, sometimes our future, but it is our current choices that really are the ones that do it. So, I see this as like a personal advocacy, personal empowerment type of book, because if we don't get us right, I don't care how big your team is you just, it's never, you're never going to be as effective as you want to.

Marcel Schwantes 08:44

Yeah, yeah. Well, that leads me to this question, but I think that you might have already touched on the why of the book. But what? Because, what, you know, there's lots of self-leadership books out there, but why this one specific why now?

Heather Younger 08:58

Well, I mean, I think this is a culmination I could think about. I had a TEDx talk I did in 2019 called Transforming adversity into opportunity. It's you, it's it is a great talk. You should go watch it. But the in there, I talk about some of the things. I add some of that in the book. I talk about it here, but there I was at a point where I was like, I did not do that talk so that I would go give keynotes on that talk. I gave that talk because I was so sick of hearing victim mentality happening in the world. Like, just everywhere I'd go just be like, coming at me, like, why aren't people owning all their outcomes? They aren't owning their behaviors and so I just got sick of it. I'm like, Listen, you know, if you want to be a victim, you do that. Like, I can be a victim. My backstory allows me to be the victim and the encyclopedia, but I am choosing not to be that victim. And so that's why I decided to do it. And then it's just been one of those things over the years. It just keeps coming at me, victimhood, victimhood, waiting, waiting, blaming, blaming. It's all around me. And sometimes, by the way, I am not free of this. Sometimes I'm doing it too, and I'm like, oh, but because I am talking about it, writing about it, I'm hyper. When I get into the place where I start to blame or I there's a little bit of victim in going not victimizing my own self, and I'm able to get myself out of that much faster because of that hyper awareness of it. It drives me nuts. It's like nails on a chalkboard, and that is why the book is here.

Marcel Schwantes 10:15

Yeah. So, who would you say this book is for? Then, actually,

Heather Younger 10:19

I mean, the book is for anybody who wants to lead themselves better. It's a book who for somebody who wants to learn to take control of their own personal journey, who's just sick of saying, why aren't the green lights happening fast enough? Why aren't people doing the things I want fast enough? Like, there are those people who are doing that. They're like, I'm actually sick of waiting for that. I want to be the one who controls that journey and that destiny a lot more. And so yes, it's going to be those, you know, people who already follow me into their people who are already either leaders and people managing people or people who are aspiring to lead more people have more influence. It's going to be those kind of people in a in the in the in the context of caring, compassionate leadership. And my invitation is to say, okay, that's great, and we have to be there. But inside of the caring leadership framework is self-leadership, and it is the biggest component of it, because our behaviors and our intentional choices determine how we show up for others, yeah, and I guess, like I said, for us first.

Marcel Schwantes 11:15

So, I love that. Okay, so I love the fact that the book is really a roadmap. I mean, for me, it spoke like a journey of self-leadership. And you describe this journey, you kind of break it down into three parts. And we were talking offline a little bit about whether it's a linear path, and some of the parts are kind of interchangeable, but I think you and I agree that that first part is really the foundation for self-leadership, and it starts with self-understanding, right? And that's really intriguing, intriguing to me, self-understanding. So, let's break that down. What does that entail exactly, and why is self-understanding so important?

Heather Younger 12:00

Well, I mean, I kind of feel like it's so hard for us to get to the other parts if we don't know who we are, what makes us tick, what stops us from doing the things we want to do, what compels us to do it, what our values are. So inside of that self-understanding are some of those things, self-awareness, understanding, our limitations. Where do they start? Where did they come from? How can we let them go? Understanding like what fear, the role of fear plays inside of, like our choices that we make, or the choices we fail to make. So, there's some of those things that are embedded in there. And at the end of each of those chapters, of course, there's going to be exercises. Because I'm like, I am an I have an affinity to action, so I'm always going to be like, okay, so now that we've said this, go do this. Now. Go, go right out. You know, your five values and then kind of do an audit about how your values are. You're living those out throughout the day. And it actually, what I love about this whole value exercise is, if I'm journaling this, which is one of the exercises that I'm journaling, I put down my top five values of things that I say I believe in, that I would almost fall on a sword for that I like. If I'm not in line with those, I can't sleep at night if I have that in my journal. Now, if I say okay every day, I needed to look at like the things that I did today, how I acted towards others, how I acted towards myself, how is that aligning with these top five values? And I'm just constantly auditing against those top five things. Number one, I feel better about myself. I feel more confident about myself, but if I don't do that kind of audit and or if I'm looking in the audit that's showing lots of incongruencies, well, number one, I got to go back to the drawing board and say, are these really my top five values, or what are the things that are stopping me from really being more aligned to those values? So that's a big part of the values

Marcel Schwantes 13:36

is huge. What about the sense of validating your self-worth. Because a lot of people don't, you know they, they shrink back from, from an understanding of, of, yeah, of their self-worth. So, talk a little about, talk a little bit about that.

Heather Younger 13:52

yeah, um, I talk in in the book, and it is really a foundational concept of, so we have self-confidence and we have self-worth. Self-confidence is like, I have this, I have this belief in myself that I can do a particular task, like speaking or writing or, you know, shoveling or whatever it is that might be a job function, right? I have a confidence in that. And then the worth is goes much deeper, doesn't it, as we think about like, why do I feel unworthy to achieve this thing, to, you know, climb this mountain, to overcome this obstacle. Why do I feel worthy or unworthy? So, the self, this idea of worthiness, and so I try to ground people in the concept, why I say this, this book is, I say personal, you know, development self-help. It isn't this, in the rah, rah sense of it, in it is about taking more control, about over your journey, over your destiny, more in your mind first and then the actions you take. But this idea that we are good in and of ourselves. We are we, I am a person of faith, and I believe like when they say, you know, God says that we are good, like we are good and there, and that's the end of it. There is no But, but. That goes with it. So, while, while I am helping, I'm giving you tools to help you shine up, polish up the inner brilliance that is already there. What I'm not telling you is that something about you is bad, so go change it. It's not what I'm saying. I'm saying you have all these things that are good in you, and now let's figure out how we bring them out a little bit more. How do we sign up the things that maybe have, the goodness could have, a little rough edges? Didn't say we were perfect, and that's really what we focus on when we're looking at self-worth. Because I put that in there, because it is the most relevant to even me, like I just I struggle to with this a lot. I've gotten a lot better because I've done some deep work on this recently, and I talk about some of that work I was doing on myself at the beginning of the book. It was beginning of this year, and I talk about that in the book. It's, it's, it's a really eye-opening thing, but we have to understand that if we don't believe in ourselves, if we don't believe deeply in who we are, what we're putting this planet to do, it's going to be hard for us to have an impact that goes outside of ourselves in a much bigger way that we want, if we don't, if we don't understand who we are.

Marcel Schwantes 16:06

Yeah, do you want to share a little bit about you mentioned that you're, you've gone through that journey as well to kind of trying to understand that process.

Heather Younger 16:15

Yeah. I mean, I at the beginning of the year, I did a, beginning of 2024, I did a I went to a retreat, and in the retreat, itself was, was kind of focused on, like, what do you want? And like, what do you they asked us that question, like, what do you want? And like, that's a really, really big time. What are the things that you hope for yourself? What are the things you dream yourself? Some people had very tactical things, some things, some people had revenue lines. I didn't do that, just I wasn't there because the year before, I was nutty baddie, and it was my best revenue year. Best revenue year of the of the year, revenue of my lifetime. And I was like, Yeah, my revenue is not my thing now. Now it's more different. It's different. It's like being more centered, being at peace, having more calm. These are the things that I was asking for in 2024 so guess what? I got more of that. So just a heads up on that, I got more of that. I got more of what I asked for, but it was, but we went through this, like, few day few day tree, and at the end, I think I was saying my problem and my issues, that the barriers are one thing. And at the end, when they had a neuro linguistic practitioner was there was helping us through a lot of exercises. And at the very end, probably 70% of the room came up with, oh my gosh, it's that we think we're unworthy. Like, that's it just took us those days to really figure out, pinpoint what was the reason why these things, what was stopping us from getting the things we wanted. And so for me, again, I have all of this. There's John Acuff will call it soundtracks, but there were these soundtracks that were happening way back from my childhood of like, you're not good enough. And I, you know, I've been in a journey of trying to get past that, and then during particular time in this exercise, it helped me realize that I was still caring a little bit about around even though I thought I wasn't. And so, they will help you work through it and think through how you can kind of stop having those soundtracks, let's say stop Yeah, in the background.

Marcel Schwantes 17:56

Yeah, cutting all the negative self-talk and not listening to the scripts that we've been playing over and over in our heads, that kind of limited limit our self-worth. And there we go. There's that, those two words again. So, once I get over sort of the obstacles, or the, I don't know, the challenges, traumas, the all the drama of your past and you're able to recover from it, whatever the trauma was, and heal from it, etc. Would you say that then, that that's when we are truly, truly able to get a better understanding of who we really are at the core of our being, would you say?

Heather Younger 18:42

I do think so. But I have to, I do have to say this, that this is a life journey for any of us who have had trauma, who have had, you know, more, maybe a little bit more, little bit more severe adversity on the on the earlier side of our life, it is a, it will be a lifetime journey getting over that. I'm not sure we ever fully heal, but there's like, levels of healing, right? So, I know you know this, because we both have, you know, Coach people too. And when I think about oftentimes, I'll go and I'll be, you know, trying. I'll coach an executive. And you It boils down to so many of the things that happened in the past are still impacting how they show up for themselves and for other people and I'll say, Okay, well, I'm not a therapist. So, like, I will then if it gets past me, because there's obviously exercises, we do, but I'm not a therapist. And so, it's like, now I go take I say, okay, now, now go make sure that you are seeing a therapist so that you can do this in parallel with the work that we're doing, so that you can go deeper. But it's, it's never, it's really never done. We have high points. We have low points. We are human. Yeah, that's the gist of it, right? So even in the book, for example, I break it down three parts, but it's not like you finish that chapter and you're done, you finish those exercises and you're done, and now it's time to go into personal development. No, that's not, that's not it. I want you to think. I wanted you to think, in, uh, kind of this linear way, as like a journey. But it's also because of how I think. I also think I want to put things and kind of into packages, so I can solve for a package and move on, so I can feel accomplished in that journey. But just know, like the next phase of this is like on looking at personal development and sustainability. How do we sustain ourselves? How do we grow ourselves? Is that next part in the book? And while it is, should be the next part of the journey. It doesn't mean you're not always going back to self-understanding outside of that. Yeah, right. So we have to kind of go back and forth. I'm a model person. I'm a framer person. Oh, it's a circular this. Oh, it's this. But in the end, you're going up and down, you're going around and back, and you're tweaking, you know? And that's just how life is. I wish I could tell you it was super, super duper simple, but I try to make in this book, I try to make it feel like something that you can achieve, and that you have it in its in its proper box, and then you can go a conquer it, right? And that way, I think that's why I like the book, is it gives you a sense of accomplishment at each term.

Marcel Schwantes 20:55

Yeah, something you said that's really intriguing is, is, yeah, you're right that sometimes we have a self-understanding. We think we have mastered that part of ourselves, right? And then, boom, life throws you a curve ball again. There is a loss, you know, an illness, a death in the family, whatever, a divorce, right? And you're kind of right back to almost square one, where you're going through a period of reflection, healing, recovery, trying to understand, you know what happened, and making sense of the world around you and things like that, right? So, I think that you're right back to self-understanding, self-reflection, gaining new self-awareness, to be able to become whole again to then venture back into All right, well, okay, let's get back into mastery. Let's get back into personal development. I mean, does that, does that track with you?

Heather Younger 21:50

Yeah, no, it's exactly right. Yeah, it's absolutely I, like I said, I wish, I wish we could say, and you do this and you do this. Now, there are some things like, I have a listening framework, and my listening framework does have steps. But even in the steps work really well. But inside of that, oftentimes, like I said, we get to the like we get to the for listening. For example, we get down to one step, let's just say, and then we may have to go back a step and then go up a step, and then finish out the loop, and then go back up and so again, because not everything is just so nice and needy, and we try to make it nice and in a little package, but it doesn't always go that way, because we're human and that's okay, right? That's what that's what's okay with about all of this. We want you to my whole goal is for you to discover the power within you that's already there and learn through a journey to become better about leading yourself into journey the way. 

Marcel Schwantes 22:44

It is, it is, and so we will tell we tell you, listeners, know, cut yourself some slacks. You are human, so you might actually jump right back. But assuming that things are gelling well, and you're on on that linear path, and you're experiencing growth and transformation, let's talk about the personal growth part of the journey, which is kind of the next phase of your book, right? So, yes, walk us through a little bit about, about that, that, that side of it.

Heather Younger 23:13

Yeah, so under personal growth. So, it's like, the personal now, you're, like, growing more. So, you're polishing the thing that exists. Remember, you're already good, and now you're polishing the thing that exists. And how do you sustain the greatness that's already there? Okay, so it's one of the things I talk about, is deciding between progress and perfection. It's huge, huge, huge, huge. If we are people who lean into this idea that everything has to be perfect before I take a step. This thing that I finish to be perfect before I release it. This thing, if we do that, this personal growth and sustainability journey, is going to be a very painful one, very painful. So, I talk a lot about really leaning to the place of thinking about yourself as in a progress place. What are the little progress points, what are the milestones and what? And by the way, I'm not, I'm a perfectionist, but I also am an iterator. So, it's, I'm a very complex person that way, like I believe in trying something new, testing it, and tweaking it, almost like the way engineers would. So, I'm just going to be like, let's, let's try this thing. Let's, let's tweak it some more. Okay, let's run this through a few times. Let's see okay, let's tweak it some more. So, to that extent, it is about progress, but I do like there's certain things I'm more of a stickler with, and I wanted to be closer to perfect, but it's embracing progress. It's learning from our setbacks. And when we can do that, we can see our setbacks as opportunities our setbacks. I was talking to someone the other day, somebody who's been my podcast, somebody who was in my care and leadership book, and I wanted to have him on for the second time. So, it's been, like, three, four years at least, since I've spoken to him, and I wanted to just talk about his journey. And one of the things that he said he's a CEO of a $300 million organization, and one of the things he said is, like, you know, my team knows. Like, we. Are eager to find the obstacles, like we're eager to look out for the challenges, and we want to find them because we understand that the setbacks the challenges, are the things that help us innovate. They help us get to the next level in our business. And so yes, that is a reframe that is a looking at something differently. It's not rah, rah. There's a little bit of playing tricks in our mind, and at the same time, we do see that our outcomes are more fruitful when we focus on the setbacks as opportunities for learning and growth. So that's a big part of it, too. If we can change our mindset about that, we get better. The prioritizing of self-care is massive when it comes to sustainability and growing ourselves. Because if we don't create, I call it an armor. So, self-care, to me is like the armor that is around us that protects us against the things that are going to come our way, the struggles that are inevitably going to happen. And so that's why I like to really try to focus on that. And then that other thing is saying, okay, in this place, let's start landing on our strengths. Let's figure out what our strengths are. How do we discover what those are? How do we develop what those are? How do we know that they're uniquely ours? And then how do we use that as a kind of our value proposition to achieve the things we want in our life, we need to look at us like we are our own brand and company, and so we're treating ourselves that way, because again, if I'm saying I'm a brand or a brand, or I'm owned by an organization or a manager owns my journey, I'm giving away all my power. And I just told you, I want you to take the power in you and learn to lead yourself. So, I want you to be thinking about, how are you self-empowering yourself? How are you uncovering your own strengths and figure figuring out how progress can be your best friend, and so can your setbacks. So that's what's really embedded in part two.

Marcel Schwantes 26:45

I want to I want to dig down further on a couple of themes here that that that have popped up for me. One is obviously self-care, and then the other one is yourself, self-limiting beliefs. Your limitations really shortcomings. But let's go back to self-care. You know, Simone Biles, Olympic gymnast, gold medalist. She's, she's, she's the goat, yep. And she became a champion of self-care. I don't know if you want to touch a little bit on this and because you talk about her in your book. But I just, I just found how that it's so intriguing to me because athletes prior to and Simone's not the only one. I mean Kevin Love of NBA basketball player, as well as some other well-known athletes have come out and basically have taken ownership of their self-care, because if they didn't, because they were experiencing, they're experiencing stuff that you wouldn't wish on anybody you know, and at that level of performance, you could go completely batty if you don't take care of yourself. And so, walk us a little bit about what Simone maybe, what Simone did, and how she became a champion, and how we should use her as an example for us as entrepreneurs, leaders, CEOs.

Heather Younger 28:14

Yeah, well, not going on really long in the story, if you don't Simone Miles is like a multi top level gymnastics. Most everybody should know that. But just in case you don't multi-level go like the go the top female gymnast, and she was in, she was in the Olympics. I want to say it's a Tokyo Olympics. And she was having like a really hard time up. She had almost like an out-of-body experience. It was absolutely stress. It was absolutely the pressure of having to perform at such a high level. But she got to a point where, like, mid twirl in the air, she she's like, what am I doing next? Like he just didn't she just lost it, and she left there, like she made choices at that point that said, I'm not going to continue the this, this Olympic ceremony, I'm not going to continue on. I have to stop, because I am, I am outside of myself. She just had; it was a little bit of a break. And I think some of us know what this is like. So she did become, she was very out, outspoken about it. She became really a big advocate about mental health, taking care of her. She took a look little break and, and coming back, you know, older, but in better shape, you know, goes into the Paris Olympics and is just, again, rocking it. But she's very out, you know, out front about her, you know, that's again, mental health is more important. Like her, she is more important and, and I think her being on that world stage like that really put it, made it okay for everybody else to say it's okay to own your own care. You know, she could be out there and the world could be like, oh, we love you. But if she wasn't willing to invest in her the time she needed to get herself right back to a place of centeredness, kind of like I was saying at the beginning this year of last year's like centeredness and. Home like peace and if I didn't have that inner peace, how could I have a level of effectiveness with my family of six, with my, you know, the people that follow me that, with my team members who are on my team, with my client. So, I had to look outward. And she was just so responsible that way. I mean, amazing example of saying, like, I'm going to just stop here. I'm going to admit to you, it's not happy with what's going on inside of me and how it's affecting my ability to impact anything external to me, how I'm going to retool and continue to lean into mental health stuff and things for me, and how I'm going to choose my journey like she just chooses her path in such a powerful way. Now people could say, well, she's the coach and she's on the national stage. It's easy to do that. Well, you know, I'm not on that. I'm not at her level. And I do try to do that, and I always say, like, I don't write about something that I'm not prepared to go do something about. I also, by the way, don't write about something that I can't learn from. So, like, as I'm writing the thing, I learn from it as I'm writing. So, I almost need to do, I'm doing my own therapy right as I'm writing the thing. So, but I do think that I'm better or stronger in some of these areas, and so that's why I'm writing about it. But I am not that person who's fallible like, right? I'm someone who needs to do a lot of work on this still, but the mental health side, like I got, I had, I had a scare, a real big scare. I do talk about the scare in the book, but I had a scare. It's probably 15 years ago, I'm working for someone, and I'm sitting in an office, and I get, like, my face becomes numb, my eyeballs become numb, my right arm all the way down becomes numb. And I'm thinking, Am I having a stroke? And I'm in my 30s at this point, like, sometimes, like late 30s or something, and and I'm, like, doing a shirt. So, I go to one of my team members, so I go to my direct report, to the next office, and I go, I go, I think I'm having a short Can you take me to ER? And we go to the ER, and I'm like, oh my gosh, they get me there, and I'm having a full-on panic attack. After they do all the tests, I'm having a full-on panic attack. They panic attack produced psychological, physiological outcomes that produced all that numbness, and so they gave me, like, valium or something like that to help me get through the moment. And then kind of gave me some tools, and I learned some tools, and I did therapy, and I all the things that I need to kind of get over it in the moment. But to be honest, it showed its head a few more times over those years where it's like, oh my gosh. Now my head has it. Was this the weirdest thing of what stress and anxiety will do if you let it get out of control. And so, every time I would start to get like, a hint of it, I'd be like, I know exactly what to do. So for me, self-care, for me was if I get outside in the sunshine and in the fresh air, like, I mean, I'm talking about, like, I'll just go sit on my driveway, if it's sunny outside, and I'll just sit there in the sun with no phone, no nothing, and just kind of deep breathe. Sometimes it's prayer. Sometimes it's talking about whatever it might be I'm doing it, or I'll go walk with my dog. And so again, those are some things that I know that worked for me without having to do drugs. I didn't have to take on a drug. I would just go and I don't need to take something that calms me down. I know what to do naturally, but sometimes you have to. Sometimes people have to do what they have to do to kind of cope. And I'm all right with all of those things, but we have to discover those things for ourselves. 

Marcel Schwantes 33:03

Yeah, Heather, I'm so glad you opened up. Open up by sharing about that, that the link between mental health and self-leadership is so key, and how it holds us back again if we don't take care of the mental health aspect. And let me give you my story, if I may, about very similar to yours. So, we know that the world is right now is at its most divisive as it's ever been. Some, some would say, started in 2016 others would say, started in 2020 regardless, it's, you know, people aren't talking. People are taking sites. You know, there is culture wars and political divisiveness. And I got sucked into that whole, the whole culture war. And I got sucked into, you know, media narratives, and I wasn't aware of it until I had such a severe anxiety attack one day. And you know these things, if you've ever had one, they sneak up on you. You don't see it coming. It's like all of a sudden, you feel like you're dying. You feel okay, this is it. I'm having a heart attack, and those were the symptoms. Anyway, I got over that at that episode, and I started to do the self-understanding piece of this puzzle that we've been talking about, to figure out the hell just happened. Well, how did I get to this point? Right? Because, I mean, that had never happened before. And so I started to exam, self-examine, and realized that I wasn't living out my best, the best version of Marcel by my value system, and that I was getting kind of, I was sort of, I. Yeah, going off the rails a little bit, because, again, I was getting sucked into the culture wars, and it affected me, and to the point where that happened, you know, the anxiety attack. And so, what did I do to recover from that? Well, thanks to my wife, she pointed it out that you have been steeped into politics and the political craziness that's going on in the world and how everything is colored through political lenses. And she says, If you step away from that, by the way, my wife is a therapist, so yeah, there you go. So yeah. So I listened to my therapist wife, and I said, All right, I am going to stop watching those or listening to those podcasts, watching those new segments and reading those, you know, those websites. And as soon as I kind of wean myself off of all that, the anxiety started to go away. And then I started to use mindfulness meditation in case it snuck back in I would do just like you, you know, you're talking about breathing meditation, and I was able to kind of, you know, bring myself back to sort of a homeostasis where I wasn't, you know, going my mind wasn't going there again, because I don't, you know, I don't wish anxiety or panic attacks on anybody. It is horrible and so haven't had one since, and that was over a year ago now, a year and a half. But I had to understand the choices that I was making and in immersing myself in the wrong conversations, in the wrong ideologies, or false ideologies, really and not serving myself well, and that was affecting how I was leading other people. So here we are, okay. So, at the beginning of 2025 I'm in a in the best place and good things are happening. I shared with you. I don't know if there's a correlation of taking care of your mental health or your spiritual health, etc., to your financial well-being, but I, you know, I shared with you, it's I'm off to the races. I'm having the best start financially in years. So, I'll let you listeners decide if there is, you know, if there's a link there. But the whole point is, take care of your mental health, and you become a better leader, a leader of self. Because yes, you're taking you're taking care of your mental health. You are leading yourself to better, better places and better outlooks in life, right?

Heather Younger 37:46

And I would, I would also mention, like, sometimes you're like, well, you know, oh, I haven't had much love with therapy, or I haven't, there's just so many different ways to cure to kind of fall for some of the mental anguish that we put upon ourselves, of that or that we are, that are just coming from within. And also, you know, physical, the physical can also work with mental and so, you know, I one of the things I do, just a very small thing, if you can't do anything else, it's like to increase your water intake. Like I keep a water bottle with me all the time. I mean, I don't go in a car without it. I feel naked without it. Honestly, drinking water, and I do believe it has a lot of impact on my psyche, my energy level, of course, your circulatory system. They tell you to drink water for a reason, but like making sure you get enough in that's one thing. Going to the gym, doing walking if you know just it doesn't have to be I'm going to go. I'm running five miles like, nope. Just go around block. Walk your dog, do something. Those small little things start to add up. And you give your own self an internal message. It says, I'm good enough, I'm better, I'm more than good enough. I'm worth it. I'm worth all of this to take the time into me, physically, mentally, financially, all the things. So, it is the way we create the armor we need armor to sustain ourselves. And how do we do that? And this is one way that we do that, is through self-care.

Marcel Schwantes 38:59

Yeah. So, the other thing I want to touch on is, is the shortcomings. I don't know how you phrased it, but it's, it's the limitations and having a having it more self-awareness of what those things are. So, walk us through a little bit about what role does, does, knowing what your limitations, of shortcomings are in your journey of self-leadership? 

Heather Younger 39:26

Yeah, it's, it's actually interesting, because the, I'm not even sure I put this in the book, but it's like these. This is what happens when you write a book. All of a sudden, you start thinking differently about what you wrote about. Or you start at you start going, oh gosh, I didn't put that in there, or whatever that might be. But here's the one thing I would say about understanding our limits. This is an inward view. It's so this is, this is actually in the self-understanding section of the book. And the thing that's important to remember as we think about this is, I want you to just think about this kind of meditate on this question. It's this, the things that I see that are. Commitments to my personal, professional success. Are they things that were given to me, let's say as a kid? Are they things I am still caring so they basically, where they adopt? Did I adopt the ones that people gave me, things that people told me I couldn't do, I wouldn't do, I shouldn't do, or are they self-imposed? So are the things I'm telling myself now, and so it's not given by somebody else. It's just stuff I'm telling me that I can't do. Or are they real limitations? Because one of the things like this is a thing I don't like about a lot of self-help books. I say is self-help, and it is like that is an imagined limitation. There are there are things that are imagined. There are things that we're taking for some other place. And then there are real things, like I worked in the real world. I'm not just somebody, I'm a practitioner. And then at the same time, I spent 25 years leading teams in different environments. And I know that there are barriers or things I cannot hop over, but what I have learned in that reframing process is I can see, choose to see the things differently. When I see the things differently, I can change than how I adjust to them, how I respond to them, things like that, right? And so, I want you to first. The very first thing you have to do is say, like, what? What are the I keep saying, I can't do this, or this isn't possible. But is that true? And so really start to kind of journal, like, is this true? Why? Like, what is it that makes that limitation real, and what is it that makes it be, maybe, something that's adopted from something that was given to you? Like, again, like John talks about a cop, talks about he talks about soundtracks. Like, what is the thing that just keeps following you when people told you when you were younger, you couldn't do this, and you shouldn't do that, and you're not good at this. How much is that is real? Or you just keep eating the stuff they gave you? And I think that's the most important part, because if you if you can decipher the things that are real and things that are just like adopted or in your head, now you can start to break those down by taking small steps, taking the small actions to move past those things, though, I think those are the most important things to think of when it comes to limitations.

Marcel Schwantes 42:11

Yeah, and I guess you could say the same, the same thing about fear. You know fear, playing it out in I don't know fear. What would you say are some fear-based behaviors? I mean, I guess I don't know. What would you say for people that are just the frozen by fear? What you know without getting into the whole psychosis of what's causing the fear? I mean, that could go back 2030, years to some unresolved childhood trauma. But I mean, how will we know that fear is overtaking us right now? 

Heather Younger 42:48

Well, I do. It is interesting that you say that, because I think there are definitely, definitely procrastination is a fear-based behavior. So, if you're like, why am I not moving off the mark on this? What is it that stopping from doing that? Why am I doing that? Because I think that, I don't know about you, I feel like that's a huge one where we just end up being that way. Or, for example, you know, we just have a, maybe an anxiety around doing things, and, like, performance anxiety. Why is that thing stopping us? And why is that? Why is it like, why can't I get off the mark to start the thing? So, it's huge. I think just having that, I think avoidance of having feedback on the thing we're doing could be another thing that's stopping us from actually moving past it, moving past the thing that's making us fearful. So, it's like, oh my gosh. I don't want people to tell me. So, I, by the way, I had this for a while. I wouldn't go, you know, I wouldn't go into, I still don't love going into bigger groups and speaking from my from speaking in front of a whole bunch of speakers who are then evaluating me, it's like, oh, gosh, oh gosh. But I'll do that in front I'll do that with the coach, like, one on one, but I'm, like, the big group thing. I like the coach to be like, no, Heather, do this, don't do that. So, for me, I have a fear of, like, the group feedback, but I don't, I don't have that same fear when it comes to coach feedback. Often time I have, there could be some things, like, I want to withdraw socially from people, because, again, if I do, I don't know how they're going to respond. Are they going to judge me? So, fear really does stop us from a lot of different things, but I definitely think procrastination is a huge one.

Marcel Schwantes 44:23

Yeah, progression issue is a big one. And as you were talking, one that just popped up for me is conflict avoidant because, and a lot of it is personality driven, I'll grant it, you know, if you're more of a, you know, a harmonious connector, you know, you're a people person and Well, naturally, that's it's not your tendency to cut through the eye of the storm, cut through conflict, but in being conflict avoidant, what you're doing is you're setting yourself for setting yourself up for being stepped on and or stepped over or having people take advantage of you. Yeah, right. If you try to try to people, please, you don't set boundaries, then people will take advantage of you. So that, I think that's one that popped up for me, is that you know, if you know that you don't like conflict, it's really going against the grain of that to get more courage to and learn to be more assertive, right? So that you can solve problems faster by facing conflict, yeah, and having occurred to do it so interesting. Okay, so the final destination on the in the book, as you go through these different phases of in a journey right of self-discovery is social interaction and or influence. And so that's intriguing to me, because here you are, we're talking about doing this inner work right, getting over our fears, understanding ourselves and our values, etc. And I think that kind of sets us up now for having influence over other people, being able to serve, serve others better, and being more interpersonally effective, I guess. Yes, thank you. Perfect, right? So, give us an overview of this, this phase of the journey. And again, that's we're saying that you can go, you can bounce around between the three. But when we arrived here, how will we know, you know what that Okay, here we are. I I'm healthy and able to now take on this part of my self-leadership journey. 

Heather Younger 46:40

It's interesting, because if you think about this, like we're always in a relationship with people, whether we like it or not, we have to be like, if we're living with somebody, we have a roommate, or we have a spouse, we have kids. If we are at work, we have people there. And so, relationships are going to be a constant as we were also working on ourselves. What I'm talking about is almost like level of effectiveness. Like level of effectiveness increases as we worked on the first part and the second part, then with the third part. But no matter what we're kind of doing, the evaluation in the work in all areas simultaneously. Okay, so it's just something, it's just, again, a framework to be thinking through. Are you kind of covering all three buckets, but in the end, we're doing them all, and that's just the way it is. What I talk about in this chapter, in this part actually, are things like having flexible thinking, and how having flexible thinking allows us to be better in our relationships, because if we aren't someone who is constantly having to have things our way, results, our way, solutions, our way, activities, our way, whatever it is. If we're someone who can be more flexible in that, then people are more attracted to that, and they can see that we're willing to kind of come more to the center with who they are as well. So having that flexible thinking is really key as it relates to social interaction. Influence. People like to be around people who are open to other ideas, who are open to see their side and are open to make sure that they're seeing and hear hearing like I want to know I'm heard by you and that you understand, and I know that because I can see that you're flexible in your positioning. Okay, another thing I talk about is, how do we set clear expectations. I mean, how do we expect clear expectations, and how do we set them? So it's like, how do we set them, and then how do we expect to get them? Because office, let me give you an example. There was somebody. It was actually my coach. My coaches told me about her partner, and she was telling me about a position. Was in a new position, and he had been waiting for his manager to kind of give him direction on this particular project. And he was getting frustrated and frustrated because he was feeling like he was sitting around like, I say, waiting for green lights, waiting for access, waiting for his purse, his manager to reach out to him to set a meeting. And she said, darn it. Why aren't you reaching out to him, to, you know, go to his assistant, set up a 15-minute call, do what you have to do to move forward the project. Then when you get to sit down with the person, you can let them know, but here's where I'm at. Here's where I'm stuck. I need your help here XYZ. And then after the call, or after the one on one or the call, then he sends an email saying, FYI, here's where I'm going. This is what I understand. And my next steps are this. I'll be back with you in blanky blank and so in that regard, he is setting clear expectations upward to his manager, in this case, to say, this is these. This is where my gap is. If we're waiting around, sitting around for waiting for the green lights, we are giving away that power. We aren't self-advocating. And I think that that's the whole exact opposite of what I'm trying to get to in the in 2025 the year of self-leadership. It is about us setting expectations for others about what we need from them to take control of our journey.

Marcel Schwantes 49:45

Yeah, and because a lot of people, they will not ask for that level of clarity and what the expectation is for the job, for the role the project, whatever. And so, it's up to leaders, and this is right in our wheelhouse, right of. Of engagement and legitimate development. It's so, so crucial to set expectations, clear objectives, and have, you know, clear milestones along the way. And, yeah, I mean this. This is a chapter right out of, out of Gallup's playbook. You know, in their engagement surveys, one of the top reasons of why people are disengaged or actively disengaged is because they don't have man that managers don't set clear expectations for the job and their roles and yeah, and how to tie what they're doing to the larger purpose of why they're doing it.

Heather Younger 50:41

Exactly, yep. And what I'm saying too is yes, I want you as so if you are a manager of teams, you'd be responsible to set clear expectations make it easier on your team, for sure, but then, like, you probably have a boss, and it's the same exact thing, you may be waiting to do some other things for your team. So upward, you're going to have to be the one who takes more control over that journey, your own journey, so that you can be more effective than the thing that they expect from you, right? Yeah. So all of us are, we're just all in the thing of like, hey. We all need to make sure that we are doing better at this. We all need to make sure that we are just, again, owning the journey in front of us, owning the barriers that are in front of us, instead of waiting for someone else to just automatically, you know, be the be the access point or the green light. Again, I understand again. I live in the real world. I understand this. So, you may be like, Look, this could be somebody who's like a line supervisor, like, well, my managers is always busy in meetings, and their way of showing up isn't to be as open and available for me. And I get that, and then that's real, by the way, that's real. But okay, so now that we put that up the elephant in the room, what are you going to do about it? You're either going to leave the job, change the position, or you're going to work with that leader if you want to be happier and at work, right? So okay, that means I have to go and, like, take more. Okay, so the can, can i Is there a way, does he have an assistant? Does she have an is there some way to get to this person? Is there some way to get their attention so that then I can move forward with things I need, so I can feel like I feel successful in my role? 

Marcel Schwantes 52:12

Yeah, yeah. Since we are in this topic of, you know, setting goals, clear expectations, let's talk about the role of feedback, both giving and receiving feedback. Do you have any tips on how to do it well, how to do it effectively?

Heather Younger 52:29

I think on the thing to remember with feedback first is you got to have the right mindset about it, like understanding that all feedbacks a gift, even if it's hurtful. I've had really hurtful feedback, but I've also found that here's what I found about hurtful feedback, whether you like it or not, there's usually a grain of truth in it, and especially if you've had it multiple times, look for the trends and the feedback to determine if you should do something about it. So sometimes you get negative feedback and you're like, there might be a little truth, but it might not be anything I need to do. I hear something similar again, uh oh. I hear something similar again, maybe just from different people. Uh oh. Now it's like, for me, the third time's the charm. So, I get to that third time, and now it's like, okay, I've heard this. Now it's something I have to work on. I have to go work on it. So, if you look at it as a gift, then when you get it, you'll be going after it, even if it's the stuff that's not great, it's painful. Sometimes it's really, really hurts, and sometimes it's really, really good and uplifting. And so, you have to look at it that way. I don't believe in the sandwich method of giving feedback, because I feel like, like there's certain even things in our life we have been taught about. And so now it lost its luster. It lost its effectiveness. So, the sandwich method is this idea of like, I'm going to give you positive thing them, I put the negative inside or the constructive inside them and give you positive again. The problem is that we all know the model. We all know the method. So then if you say and, or but, or whatever you might say, they immediately are just like, so whatever you said before, they aren't hearing that part. They don't hear the good. They're only hearing the negative. So, I believe that the thing about feedback is that we need to go into it first from a place of relationship and from a place of care. But that's also my lens. My lens is always like, how am I already building the relationship up front, where they know I look out for them, where they know I care for them, where they know I'm in their corner, that when I get to the point where I'm like, uh oh, we need some course correction here, something didn't go so well. Now they know I'm doing it from a place of care and concern. Instead of I'm trying, I'm out for you, or I'm trying to make you look bad. I actually want to uplift you. I want you to be better. I want you to feel better. So, it's not a model, but it is saying like you have to embody more of this care, this humanity, this realness, this compassionate side of you, so that then. It's time to give any kind of feedback. You don't have to worry about a method, really. I mean, you could just, I'm not saying you're going to be rude and rough, but it would just be more like Marcel, you know, I care, you know, I care about you. You know, I'm in your corner, right? I just happen to notice this thing happened the other day, and it was really unlike you. And I just want to kind of bring it to the forefront and talk to you about it. And Marcel's like, oh, what I do? And so yes, Marshall's like, oh, there might be a little bit of anxiety. There may be. And when I tell Marcel what it was, I saw, he was going to have a little bit of disappointment, but he's not going to be like, and Heather's out for me, and Heather's such a bad manager, or Heather's such a bad colleague, they're going to He's going to be like, Oh, wow. Guess that I did do that, or let me contemplate, did I do that? And then I come back, it's like, thank you, Heather, for seeing the thing in me that wasn't my best side and for calling that forward. So, I want to just challenge people take a break away from my check the box, thinking with feedback, and to just know that it's easier to deliver the constructive if you've already been the person who delivers positive all the time, if you've always been the person who already uplifts people around you, irrespective, you just have always been the champion of others. And now, when you go into that place where you have to help them course correct, give them some kind of feedback that helps them get better, they just it's they're not offended by it because they know you're in their corner.

Marcel Schwantes 56:24

Yeah, yeah, folks, you know, we've covered, uh, Heather's book, sort of this through this, these three areas on the journey to self-leadership. But one hour conversation doesn't do Heather's book justice. Listen This. This book is, is chock full of practical stuff, exercises, journaling, self-reflection, questions and case studies. I mean, so point being, please go get Heather's book, and it's going to make that much better, much more effective when you master the self-leadership, side of leadership. So Heather, as we wind down here, is there anything that we didn't talk about that you just you got to get it out? 

Heather Younger 57:10

I don't think so. I think I think that my kind of final message to people, and in my final invitation, is for you to stop waiting like nobody is coming to save you. No one else could advocate for you more or better than you can. Nobody else really knows quite what it is you need more than you. And of course, if you're a faith-based person, the Lord above and you could just you have to stop waiting for green lights. They may be red and yellow all around you. You create. Just turn the lights green on your own, empower you and polish up that inner shine that's a new and learn and just say I'm owning in 2025, leading myself, irrespective of my title, that's what I want to read with you. Leave you with today.

Marcel Schwantes 57:51

Okay, this is a new segment. It is the speed round Heather. So, this is a chance for you to think on your feet. I'm going to fire up quick questions and fire them back at me. You ready? Okay, yep, all right. Best Business or leadership book you've ever read.

Heather Younger 58:09

Discover the Leader Within You. John Maxwell,

Marcel Schwantes 58:13

One, you're the engagement queen. One simple engagement of practice I can start doing today.

Heather Younger 58:22

So exceeding amounts of appreciation towards people you work with.

Marcel Schwantes 58:28

Best way to minimize conflict in the workplace.

Heather Younger 58:32

Express curiosity.

Marcel Schwantes 58:36

Best way to motivate someone who's underperforming.

Heather Younger 58:41

Find out what it is that they see as a perceived barrier.

Marcel Schwantes 58:46

All right, name a person dead or alive that you'd like to have dinner with.

Heather Younger 58:55

Oprah Winfrey.

Marcel Schwantes 58:57

Oh yeah. Had you? I had you thinking there for a minute. 

Heather Younger 59:01

Okay, well, I thought, I thought of one other person, but really, and then I was like, well, this person, this person, but it's really her/

Marcel Schwantes 59:06

Yeah, okay, okay, all right, your biggest hope for 2025

Heather Younger 59:14

That we all can start to really take control of our own choices, and that those choices and behaviors spill out in a positive bridge building way for the world, and not one that is in that breaks and divides us.

Marcel Schwantes 59:32

You have survived the speed round. Okay, we bring it home, traditionally, with two questions, as we do with every guest, the first one is the love question. Sticking with themes we've talked about, how do I lead with more actionable, practical love and care, day in and day out?

Heather Younger 59:58

I'm gonna say, uh. It starts with us. So, establish practices for yourself that express self-love, because we can't spill out into the world with all the love that we really have inside of us, unless we, unless we develop the love inside of us for us.

Marcel Schwantes 1:00:14

Love it all right. You bring us home. What's that one thing you'd like us to walk away with?

Heather Younger 1:00:21

No more green lights, no more waiting, no more blaming you. Got it.

Marcel Schwantes 1:00:24

Love it, all right, folks, the book, again, is called the art of self-leadership. Discover the power within you and learn to lead yourself. Heather, if people want to connect with you. They want to find out more about you. Where can they go? 

Heather Younger 1:00:44

I’d say the best place is probably LinkedIn. You just find me, Heather Younger, and you'll find me. I'll pop up on LinkedIn. So, I would say that would be one of them. And then I think the other one is just on my website, Heather younger, com.

Marcel Schwantes 1:00:54

Very good, very good. Hey. It's been a blast as always. And you know, every time you put out a book. You know that you got a spot here for you, available waiting for you.

Heather Younger 1:01:04

You know, I appreciate that about you really do. Yeah? Big hugs to you for sure.

Marcel Schwantes 1:01:10

Right back at you. Okay, you can keep the conversation going. Folks on social media with hashtag love and action podcast and look for my show notes, um, as well as a YouTube link to this very conversation, you can find all that stuff on my website, including Heather's contact info and website. All that stuff is at Marcel schwantes.com, for Heather younger I'm Marcel Schwantes. Keep loving yourself and others, and good things will happen. We'll see you next time. Bye.